Rear rank shooting from terrain

MJT · Post by **MJT** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:15 pm

I’m sure this question has been asked before and the answer is probably in the rules – but I can’t find it!

I have two ranks of bow and want to fire with both ranks - but I’m in a village. Page 131 states that “Troops inside can only shoot in 1 rank” but what if I have the front rank out of the village and the rear rank in the village? For purposes of shooting is the BG inside the terrain (which it isn’t for purposes of Cover) or outside the terrain and can claim two ranks deep for shooting?

Thanks
Marcus

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:06 am

no, they are still rear rank/2nd rank

MJT · Post by **MJT** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:41 am

Thanks for the response but I'm still confused. I did't ask the question very well. I'll re-state the issue:

I have two ranks of bow and want to fire with both ranks - but I have two ranks of bow with the front rank out of the village and the rear rank in the village? Can I claim two ranks deep for shooting?

And can you please point me at the reference or clarification that confirms this.

thanks again
Marcus

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:53 am

MJT wrote:Thanks for the response but I'm still confused. I did't ask the question very well. I'll re-state the issue:

I have two ranks of bow and want to fire with both ranks - but I have two ranks of bow with the front rank out of the village and the rear rank in the village? Can I claim two ranks deep for shooting?

And can you please point me at the reference or clarification that confirms this.

You cannot claim 2 ranks shooting in these circumstances. Consider this the clarification that confirms it.

(Another case of FOG being written in normal English and not allowing for every possible "creative" interpretation of the wording).

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:14 am

Well you have two ranks, and those two ranks are in terrain so you can't shoot the second only the first.

Si

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:39 am

shall wrote:Well you have two ranks, and those two ranks are in terrain so you can't shoot the second only the first.

Si

I think what Simon meant is:

Well you have two ranks, and one of those two ranks is in terrain so you can't shoot the second only the first.

MJT · Post by **MJT** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:32 am

Gentlemen,
Thank you. That clears it up nicely.
Marcus

shall · Post by **shall** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:02 am

I was being a bit more philosophical ... but RBS has adapted to the rule relevant interp for me thanks

My overidng comment is that bases are just bases - real generals don't have them. 2 ranks of bases is just one block of troops with a frontage of Y and a depth of N ranks.

This "block of troops" is in terrain to some degree, so its entirely logical to me for the restriction to apply, as RBS had stated.

Si

HannibalBarca · Post by **HannibalBarca** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:55 am

I'm not saying that it isn't a sensible concept, Simon, but that is at odds with the way the rules are written with respect to terrain.

"Battle group disorder" - page 26: "Only bases marked 'A' [bases at least partly overlapping a rough terrain area] are in the rough terrain..."

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:59 am

So second rank bases are second rank and in difficult terrain, therefore cannot shoot. I'd be happy with a second rank base of the BG completely outside of the terrain shooting. Shoot on a base by base basis.

shall · Post by **shall** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:17 pm

I'm not saying that it isn't a sensible concept, Simon, but that is at odds with the way the rules are written with respect to terrain.

"Battle group disorder" - page 26: "Only bases marked 'A' [bases at least partly overlapping a rough terrain area] are in the rough terrain..."

To me that says ...

The file from left has front out and rear in. As rear is in it can only shoot from a front rank as troops inside can only shoot in 1 rank.

I can see how you can twist it to try to say otherwise, but its a long stretch and i think the intent is clear enough without resorting to too much legalise. Otherwise my more liiteral ruling would be something like ....

Rear rank can try to shoot as in 1 rank .... but alas ...

its not allowed to shoot over the friendly base in the way, and has np other target between itself and the front rank base.

Isn't that where you get to with alternate interps - just for fun of course

)

And my even more literal one ...

A bg that is 2 deep in a forest cannot fire at all as it is not in 1 rank - the BG is in 2 ranks formation !!

Si

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:58 am

shall wrote:I can see how you can twist it to try to say otherwise, but its a long stretch and i think the intent is clear enough without resorting to too much legalise. Otherwise my more liiteral ruling would be something like ....

Rear rank can try to shoot as in 1 rank .... but alas ...

its not allowed to shoot over the friendly base in the way, and has np other target between itself and the front rank base.

Isn't that where you get to with alternate interps - just for fun of course )

And my even more literal one ...

A bg that is 2 deep in a forest cannot fire at all as it is not in 1 rank - the BG is in 2 ranks formation !!

Hijacking this thread when asked about second rank shooters in a mixed formation in terrain I ruled that they couldn't shoot. I seem to remember using similar arguments to these.