Flank Attacks ???

[KiwiWarlord]

Why don't the Cataphracts get the +100 as well as the +50 for a Flank Attack ?
Open Terrain, the Cataphracts charge the Flank then bounce off !!!
Doesn't seem right to me.

rsz_screenshot_747(1).png (689.29 KiB) Viewed 1082 times

[SnuggleBunnies]

Why don't the Cataphracts get the +100 as well as the +50 for a Flank Attack ?

So flank attacks against engaged units work the same as in Pike and Shot: +200 POA, auto drop. But against unengaged units, all it is is a guaranteed +50; your mileage will vary as a result. A unit of rabble charging a unit of Klibanophoroi would be up +50, for example, but a unit that would already have been up +50 derives no benefit whatsoever. I agree that this is rather odd, especially as someone who came to fog2 from PIke and Shot.

So head on, this impact would be:

Lancer 100 + Superior 50 = 150
vs
Light Spear 100 + Darts 66 (normally 100 but only 66 vs well armored enemies, effectively only cataphracts in-period) + Superior 50 = 216

So normally the cataphracts would be down 66, instead they're up 50.

[KiwiWarlord]

Why don't the Cataphracts get the +100 as well as the +50 for a Flank Attack ?

I agree that this is rather odd, especially as someone who came to fog2 from PIke and Shot.

What I am getting at SB is that in reality the foot would have been trampled under hooves and poked with lances much more than the +50 dishes out.
In the game the Roman Infantry, without turning to face, regain their Good Order and beat off the Cataphracts in the Impact Phase ??!!

Flank Charge Result.png (113.35 KiB) Viewed 1053 times

[rbodleyscott]

Why don't the Cataphracts get the +100 as well as the +50 for a Flank Attack ?

I agree that this is rather odd, especially as someone who came to fog2 from PIke and Shot.

What I am getting at SB is that in reality the foot would have been trampled under hooves and poked with lances much more than the +50 dishes out.
In the game the Roman Infantry, without turning to face, regain their Good Order and beat off the Cataphracts in the Impact Phase ??!!
Flank Charge Result.png

In historical accounts where a flank/rear attack was deadly in an Ancient or Medieval battle, this pretty much always occurred when the line was already engaged in close combat to its front.

The logic is that if they are not already engaged, they in fact have time to turn enough men to put up a decent defence against a flank attack, though obviously not as good a defence as if the whole unit was facing. (Net -50 POA for the flank attack, net +66 POA for the frontal attack)

If, on the other hand, they are already engaged, they can't turn enough men in time to prevent being "trampled under hooves and poked with lances much more than the +50 dishes out.", so get automatically Disrupted and a combat at a net -200 POA

The current rules are working as intended. Flank attacks are already a fairly dominant factor in the game, and do not need to be made easier to achieve full effect from.

In Pike and Shot cavalry need the boost of relatively easier flank attacks, because they can't beat steady pike and shot frontally, but can be shot down by them. Also, a unit with a central block of pikes and sleeves of shot is going to find it more difficult to set up an ad hoc defence against a flank attack than an ancient unit with close combat troops in the outer files of the unit.

[SnuggleBunnies]

In the game the Roman Infantry, without turning to face, regain their Good Order and beat off the Cataphracts in the Impact Phase ??!!

I will add that cavalry to an extent needs the help in Pike and Shot, where so many units can shoot down horsemen while impervious from frontal charges, and a large number of units can't be flank attacked, and some can't be rear attacked either. In FoG, infantry on its own is often unable to force engagements on cavalry, needing skirmishers or their own cavalry supporting to do anything, though there are a few integrated melee/ranged units (Assyrians, Sparabara, Skoutatoi, Pavisiers).

[KiwiWarlord]

Thanks for the replies SB & RBS. Makes much sense just hard to take in sometimes.....too much Pike & Shot and Sengoku Jidai I guess.
As a side note ADLG, the French Ancients Ruleset for tabletop which I play at my wargames club, plays the same. Not frontally engaged, not Disrupted when hit in the Flank.