Grand Campaign Challenge Idea, no upgrades?

[MaxDoge]

Had this random idea about doing a GC but without upgrading any units, no exceptions. Sounds like it could be a fun challenge, what do people think?

I'm pretty sure I did something like this back in the day with Panzer General 2 and I remember having an absolute blast, some of the apparently weak units that I would never really use turned out beastly and became my favorite units, like the flam panzer or anti-air sdkfz that could attack ground targets.

It's a simple enough concept for the idea, just imagine there is no upgrade unit feature in the game, doesn't mean you're supposed to finish the GC with the two starting Panzer IA, it just means if you want to use new equipment you have to purchase fresh units, so the progression of your core would be more organic with less power spikes. It would make a more realistic/historic playthrough since you have to decide whether to deploy slightly weaker experienced units with great heroes or stronger fresh units, a mix of both would probably be ideal.

[PeteMitchell]

Cool idea, at what difficulty?

[MaxDoge]

Cool idea, at what difficulty?

Not sure, Rommel? Since I think a lot of prestige would be saved by not upgrading and disbanding "obsolete" units eventually. A lot of tactical choices and difficult decisions would have to be made regarding the core and overstrengthening weaker units a lot more would be very viable, even giving them elite replacements in battle if needed

Wouldn't that be the most historically accurate thing to do? Not sure if the Germany were actually upgrading their existing equipment.

[fgiannet]

I think this is an outstanding idea. Very simple to do but adds a whole new dimension to game play. It can be very historical as well because people often worked with what they had before being transferred to technical schools after getting wounded, promoted to higher levels of command, etc. Of course there were people who fought (especially Germans) in combat throughout the war and saw their equipment steadily upgraded (Luftwaffe Aces, etc.) and I do not know if you could complete the GC without upgrading your hero’s (Rudel, etc.) to the best equipment (I have yet to play the GC past 1942).

But wow.....that makes for a whole new layer of strategy in older DLCs like Allied Corps/US Corps. Do you keep this highly experienced (and cheaply over-strengthened unit) with a great hero in use (but treat it with more care)? What about a Hurricane with a +3 Attack hero.....your only choices are then are to disband the unit (hoping he can pass his skills on as a flight school instructor) or use him more intelligently. He still has great value in the right situations. This rule might even see you keeping a Hurricane in flight long after normal gameplay would have gotten rid of it (at El Alamein for example). That is very historical!

Or keeping an M4A1 in service all the way from North Africa because it has a +3 Defensive hero. Again....very historical!

This way of playing would allow people to have much more varied cores even if they did not want to go as far as using historical orders of battle. It would require them to use more strategy, give them more of a challenge if they needed it, without turning core composition into a job requiring lots of historical research (which I would personally find very strange because I never met a leisure activity I could not turn into work).

And yes, I think people would find greater appreciation for some of the lesser equipment with this style of play. They would be forced to see/use some of the more subtle elements of this great game.

Wow that is an excellent idea. Thank you for suggesting it.

[PeteMitchell]

... or don't work with heroes at all...

Some people played the game disbanding units with given heroes (e.g. Rudel)

[fgiannet]

Well that was something I was curious about. Could you even play the Grand Campaign that way... I played until 1942 using only the units that were actually present at particular battles and only the hero’s that appeared after getting kills (it was incredible tracking the lineages of certain units and seeing others develop). I finished 1942 but got the impression that it would become impossible to play with historical orders of battle and no “super” heroes (I was buying the dlcs individually at the time). I stopped playing and began to focus on other campaigns because my goal was/is to learn as well as seeing a historical model. I would be curious if the people who don’t use Rudel are focusing on an all Tiger army etc...

You highlight another interesting historical point about MaxDoge’s suggestion though....someone might say “so I just disband my hurricane with a +3 attack hero?”

Yes, and develop some new talent. That +3 attack hero has done his time, will get promoted to higher level operations, and someone else takes their turn strafing rail depots. Very historical (and will require a more careful strategy).

You might wind up with a very different force (different character/personality) in different time periods based on the hero’s who have moved on and the new ones developed (instead of having the same people all the way through). Again, this might require a change in strategy to get the most out of your current resources.

You could also see a nice model for older equipment being replaced by newer equipment. The older equipment will be over-strengthened while the newer equipment will not have the experience to do so. This would be a good representation of consolidating the older equipment/units as it/they are getting phased out while the newer equipment does not yet have a surplus. That should look really interesting!