Time Warp

[ericdoman1]

Hi All

I used time warp for the Ghaznavids in Medieval.

In time warp both Ghaznavids have Turkic allies, the medieval Ghaznavid has Hindu Indian only, FOG II Ghaznavids has Turkic allies only.

Not too big a deal in Medieval you can have o - 2 Trebuchet but 0 - 2 Heavy Artillery in time warp or FOG II

In Medieval you an have 1 + 0/5 Turcoman cavalry, in time warp or FOG II 1 + 0/3.

I am using Ghaznavids in TDC I Early Medieval.

If there is a slight difference with the Ghaznavids there may well be other differences in other armies.

Cheers

Eric

[rbodleyscott]

Hi All

I used time warp for the Ghaznavids in Medieval.

In time warp both Ghaznavids have Turkic allies, the medieval Ghaznavid has Hindu Indian only, FOG II Ghaznavids has Turkic allies only.

Not too big a deal in Medieval you can have o - 2 Trebuchet but 0 - 2 Heavy Artillery in time warp or FOG II

In Medieval you an have 1 + 0/5 Turcoman cavalry, in time warp or FOG II 1 + 0/3.

I am using Ghaznavids in TDC I Early Medieval.

If there is a slight difference with the Ghaznavids there may well be other differences in other armies.

Cheers

Eric

Possibly, but Time Warp was always intended to be "just a bit of fun", and was not intended for running tournaments. We didn't charge anything for it! We make no guarantees regarding any crossover lists being identical to the vanilla version.

You are welcome to point out any such anomalies for possible future "correction", but that would not happen (if at all) before the next next DLC was released, several months down the line.

Incidentally the Turkish list is 600-1036, so it is correct that it isn't available as allies in the proper Medieval version of Ghaznavid the list, because the Medieval game only starts in 1040/1050 AD, even though the Ghaznavid list itself is valid from 962-1187.

[Paul59]

Possibly, but Time Warp was always intended to be "just a bit of fun", and was not intended for running tournaments. We didn't charge anything for it! We make no guarantees regarding any crossover lists being identical to the vanilla version.

You are welcome to point out any such anomalies for possible future "correction", but that would not happen (if at all) before the next next DLC was released, several months down the line.

Incidentally the Turkish list is 600-1036, so it is correct that it isn't available as allies in the proper Medieval version of Ghaznavid the list, because the Medieval game only starts in 1040/1050 AD, even though the Ghaznavid list itself is valid from 962-1187.

Also, the Hindu Indians were only allied to the Ghaznavids after 1050, so it is correct that they are not allies for the ancient Ghaznavids.

The medieval Ghaznavids have Trebuchets instead of Heavy Catapults, and Turcoman Cavalry (and Light Horse) instead of Early Turkish Cavalry. This is all intentional.

Perhaps the real issue is why both Time Warp Ghaznavid lists are the Ancient version? Shouldn't one be the Medieval version, and the other the Ancient?

Maybe this is because both lists are named GHAZNAVID? It isn't an issue with the other duplicate armies in Time Warp, such as the Fatimids etc, as their Ancient and Medieval lists are identical.

cheers

Paul

[rbodleyscott]

The later Ghaznavid list is in fact in the Time Warp army list, but (probably because both lists have the same name) it is actually showing the early one twice, instead of showing them both.

If I change the early list to E_Ghaznavid, that will probably solve the problem, but it will probably break any on-going MP games using that list when the update hits.

When does the current season of the TDC end? And when does the next season start?

I cannot guarantee a release date for the next DLC, but if it is after the end of the current season, people can be warned not to use Time Warp Ghaznavids in the next season.

[Paul59]

The later Ghaznavid list is in fact in the Time Warp army list

Yes, the Medieval Ghaznavids are in the Time Warp ArmyList, but I meant that both Time Warp Ghaznavid lists that show up in game use the Ancients list.

[rbodleyscott]

On further investigation, it is going to cause a lot of issues to try and "fix" this, and may break on-going MP games when any "fixed" version goes live. So I am going to leave it as it is.

In future I strongly advice tournament organisers not to pick period start and end dates that require the use of Time Warp.

[ericdoman1]

Both Ghaznavid lists in time warp have Turkic allies. SO as you have said that cannot be allowed.

"just a bit of fun" - Not sure that is a good answer Richard. But it would allow armies from all DLCs to battle one another. Which was perfect for all sorts of games, not just tournament games.

I had a quick look through and there are 37 armies in FOG Ancients that are either a few years away from 1040 AD, actually over 25 are 1040 AD +

Having a look at Medieval. If somebody wished to create a tournament from 1030 to 1050 AD. There would be approx 70 armies to choose from between FOG Ancients and Medieval.

Anyways it doesn't make any difference as nothing is going to be done about it.

[rbodleyscott]

OK, you win.

I am fixing it so that there are separate Ghaznavid (962-1040 AD) and (1041-1187 AD) lists in Time Warp, the latter being the same as the one in Medieval Swords & Scimitars. The latter dates will also apply to the Medieval swords and scimitars list.

Because this has unavoidably entailed changing the name of the first list from [GHAZNAVID] to [E_GHAZNAVID] in the Time Warp ArmyList.txt file, it will almost certainly break any on-going MP battles using that list in Time Warp when the update hits (along with the 4th DLC), and such games would probably need to be re-started.

As the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for..."

The Time Warp Fatimid (978-1073) and Pecheneg (850-1122) lists appear to be identical to the Medieval versions, so I have left those alone.

[ericdoman1]

Thanks Richard

When will the update happen?

We intend to finish TDC I by the 7th May, it may be later.

I only have the one game using time warp. So hopefully that should finish within 2 weeks.

Do you think you or a colleague should check all, just in case or is it just the Ghaznavid because they are in FOG II and FOG Medieval.

I'll leave that in your more than capable hands

[rbodleyscott]

Do you think you or a colleague should check all, just in case or is it just the Ghaznavid because they are in FOG II and FOG Medieval.

I'll leave that in your more than capable hands

As far as I know it is just the lists that are in both. I have checked Fatimid, Pecheneg as well as Ghaznavid lists.

If there are any others, perhaps you or someone else could draw my attention to them.

[rbodleyscott]

When will the update happen?

When DLC4 is released, which has not yet been announced. (Not even to me). It certainly isn't imminent, the beta hasn't even started yet.

Try to get your other 2 games against pre-1050 armies started as soon as possible.

We intend to finish TDC I by the 7th May, it may be later.

It would be wise to give us a firm end date, in case it is possible to set the DLC4 release date to avoid that. It may not be possible to avoid your tournament dates anyway (the release schedule is somewhat inexorable), but it is certainly more likely if you give us a definite end date. And a proposed start date for the next one.

Note that because of script changes in the update, several anomalies occurred in Ancients games at the end of the WTC because the end date was extended beyond the agreed date, so that some people were still playing after the update. (Which we had postponed for 6 weeks just to avoid such a clash!).

So pick an end date and stick to it if you want to minimise the chance of that sort of thing happening.

[Paul59]

Do you think you or a colleague should check all, just in case or is it just the Ghaznavid because they are in FOG II and FOG Medieval.

I'll leave that in your more than capable hands

As far as I know it is just the lists that are in both. I have checked Fatimid, Pecheneg as well as Ghaznavid lists.

If there are any others, perhaps you or someone else could draw my attention to them.

The LBED_ARAB list appears in both Ancients and Medieval, but they are identical.