definition of steady

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat May 16, 2009 9:55 pm

A question we can't seem to find an answer to in the rules is the definition of being steady regarding pikes and spears. If they move into disordering terrain (not severely disordered) do they still count as steady?
Thanks for your input

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Sat May 16, 2009 10:01 pm

page 133 in the terrain grade/effect table. For both disorder and severe disorder it states - does not count as steady

I had trouble working it out as well until i'd re-read the rule book about 100 times and finally noticed this section!

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sun May 17, 2009 5:52 am

Thanks for pointing that one out, now I know my pikes don't want to set foot in anything but clear

shall · Post by **shall** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:49 am

Indeed keep them in the open and you will be "livetorius"

Si

HansJansen · Post by **HansJansen** » Sun May 17, 2009 9:49 am

Does this mean that disrupted/fragmented does not affect steadiness?

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:48 am

Does this mean that disrupted/fragmented does not affect steadiness?

No - if you are disrupted or fragmented you are not steady.

Similarly if you are disorderd or severely disordered you are not steady.

Pete

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Sun May 17, 2009 6:30 pm

...but I think that if you are disrupted and go into disordering terrain, dicewise it gets no worse for you?

Martin

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sun May 17, 2009 7:05 pm

...but I think that if you are disrupted and go into disordering terrain, dicewise it gets no worse for you?

Correct

Pete

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon May 18, 2009 6:45 pm

Yes you can only be unsteady not unsteadier for more than one reason for unsteadiness, if any of that makes sense.
Still best to keep the pikes in the open areas and avoid allthose fields full of disordering plants and low walls... not to mention houses and gullies etc. We found the Romans actually do better in the disordering terrain since they lose dice but keep their PoA's.
Long live Livetorius

shall · Post by **shall** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:14 pm

We found the Romans actually do better in the disordering terrain since they lose dice but keep their PoA's.

And we even designed it to do that

Si

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:23 pm

..until they meet up with stupid elephants that stomp them in all directions

deadtorius wrote:Yes you can only be unsteady not unsteadier for more than one reason for unsteadiness, if any of that makes sense.
Still best to keep the pikes in the open areas and avoid allthose fields full of disordering plants and low walls... not to mention houses and gullies etc. We found the Romans actually do better in the disordering terrain since they lose dice but keep their PoA's.
Long live Livetorius

shall · Post by **shall** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:13 am

Yes stupid elephants are the most dangerous ... alas my numidians always seemd to have intellgient ones who new it made more sense to run away!

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:57 am

A BG of 8 average longbowmwen in 2 ranks holds the edge of a forest. They have been in this position since the beginning of the battle so have had plenty time to choose positions etc. They are, however, disrupted due to earlier events. A BG of 4 superior knights in line abreast rides into charge range. The longbowmen let rip with 3 dice for shooting and miss.

In the next turn, the archers shoot again and disrupt the knights (without causing a casualty), even though a commander is leading them!

In their turn, the knights choose to charge into the forest and ( !!! )...they are now severely disordered and disrupted. In the impact, knights get 4 dice, archers get 6 ( do the back rank shoot, disordered? It is shooting, which cannot be overhead in this terrain, but it is impact shooting, which may be different. We ruled they did.) The knights receive no POA, nor the archers, but the knights led by their commander reroll 1s and 2s. The knights lose and become fragmented...

In the ensuing melee, these outnumbered, fragged and severely disordered knights still get 4 dice, but now at a +1POA for better armour rerolling 1s and 2s. They don't break off because their opponents are disrupted/disordered ( would the knights have had to break off if the archers were merely disordered? ). The archers with their 6 dice needing 5s lose, fragment and are surely on the way out...

Is this all correct? Does it seem right, too?

Martin

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:10 am

The Knights would not break off as they are not fighting any steady foot, wether through disruption or disorder.

The rear ranks cannot shoot in a wood even if it is in the impact phase. Only rear ranks can shoot in impact. Rear ranks cannot shoot in woods.

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:15 am

Cheers Phil...so the archers were even worse off than we thought!

Hmm...so hiding in a forest will be no substantial help to archers when fighting mounted knights? Or are the mounted knights too powerful in terrain in which I imagine they would have avoided fighting? Opinions?

Martin

Martin0112 · Post by **Martin0112** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:17 am

Try vineyards instead of forest

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:22 am

WhiteKnight wrote: Or are the mounted knights too powerful in terrain in which I imagine they would have avoided fighting? Opinions?

Martin

Surely hiding in a wood is not where longbow would think themselves at their best. I think they excelled in muddy fields. Lots of sky to shoot through instead of branches. I personally think that shooters range should be reduced from forests to a max of 2 MU.

But just having thought about that visibility is mutual, so it is!

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:24 am

I have seen knights chew up archers in a wood but the archers were in a single rank. With 8 bases of archers vs 4 knights in a wood I would expect the archers to win but it does really need the knights to lose bases to hurt them.

Even if the knights win and break the archers they will be stuck in the wood for a very long time afterwards though as they only move 1MU when in a wood.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:24 am

Why do you expect a few trees to make that much of a difference? I'm on a horse, in full armout. with a big sword and shield. You're not. why would you expect to win?

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:42 am

Phil's point is interesting...archers at the edge of a forest can only "see" 2MU, so can't shoot at the approaching knights until they are that close. Neither can the knights charge them until within that distance, in fact the knights shouldn't have charged til they were 1MU away...upshot is, we did that whole interaction wrongly! So how should it have gone?

...some brave ( but disordered and disrupted )longbows hold the edge of a forest, a picked/prepared position they've been in since the start of the battle. A BG of knights approach to 4MU away from them, but neither BG can see the other? This seems unlikely? Tey approach the forest and at 2MU spot the longbows...do they stop at that point or at 1MU? Either way the archers now get 3 dice of shooting. ( If the knights stopped at 2MU, then the archers will have 3 more goes at the knights, as these guys can't charge until they are at 1MU, their move alowance in "difficult"?)

If and when the knights get stuck in, severely disordered and disrupted by shooting, impact will be 4 dice knights v 3 dice archers, equal POA, with the knights having rerolls on 1 and 2 if led by a commander.

In melee, the outnumbered, severely disordered and fragmented horsemen still get 4 dice to 3, but are now a POA up plus rerolls.

Martin

definition of steady

definition of steady

The ambush by the archers goes horribly wrong.....