Evaders encountering obstructions

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:08 pm

Page 67 has a series of bullet points of what evaders must do if they counter obstructions. Should evaders cycle through the bullet points multiple times from start to finish if applicable, or just once? i.e. having moved past a particular bullet point in the sequence you can never go back to it again as the evade move progresses.

Example, 2x2 LH BG evades in the direction of an enemy BG's charge and immediately encounters the flank of a second enemy BG. The LH shift sideways by up to one base width to avoid the enemy and continue with their evade move.

Before completing their evade distance they encounter a third enemy BG flank. They could avoid this enemy BG by again moving up to one base width to the side and carrying on their merry way - but do they? Or do they stop 1 MU away from the third enemy BG causing their tail to get caught by the chargers, even though they have only moved tow thirds of their variable evade move?

Let's say they do shift sideways to avoid the third enemy BG. They then run smack into terrain in which their total move would be less than they have already moved to reach this point (they are meant to go a total of 8 MUs). Do they now seek to avoid entering the terrain by turning 90 degrees and moving along its edge to use up the remaining move distance?

In other words, do evaders continue to duck and dive through gaps and around each obstruction encountered until their total evade move distance is used up? Each time a new obstruction is encountered, do evaders go to the top of the bullet point list and work through it in strict sequence seeking the first applicable option?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri May 15, 2009 1:27 pm

Evaders get one choice. They can shift/drop upto 1 base width to avoid all. If they cannot avoid all they do not shift at all

david53 · Post by **david53** » Fri May 15, 2009 5:22 pm

zoltan wrote: Example, 2x2 LH BG evades in the direction of an enemy BG's charge and immediately encounters the flank of a second enemy BG.

If the enemy BG was also a LH unit cound'nt the evaders just contact the enemy in the flank and the impact gets sorted in the next impact phase. I know I'm wrong but what have i missed.
Dave

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Fri May 15, 2009 5:34 pm

david53 wrote:
zoltan wrote: Example, 2x2 LH BG evades in the direction of an enemy BG's charge and immediately encounters the flank of a second enemy BG.
If the enemy BG was also a LH unit cound'nt the evaders just contact the enemy in the flank and the impact gets sorted in the next impact phase. I know I'm wrong but what have i missed.
Dave

No, evaders are not chargers. Evaders cannot contact enemy of any type whatsoever.

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Fri May 15, 2009 9:58 pm

philqw78 wrote:Evaders get one choice. They can shift/drop upto 1 base width to avoid all. If they cannot avoid all they do not shift at all

So I read this interpretation to say:

At the time of electing to evade, LH evaders look around to see if there is a route they can follow up to their required variable move, while making only one movement change (maximum of one base sideways shift, change direction etc) for ALL the obstuctions that may be in their way.

If no such route is available, they freeze, do not evade at all and are caught.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Fri May 15, 2009 10:55 pm

No. They move until 1 MU away from the nearest obstructing enemy BG and halt.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri May 15, 2009 11:05 pm

Also they must choose their direction of evade before rolling VMD.

They move then until obstructed (stopping 1 MU short of enemy, on meeting other obstructions, bursting through friends), but can only ever shift or contract one base width by any base of the evading BG.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Fri May 15, 2009 11:38 pm

philqw78 wrote:Also they must choose their direction of evade before rolling VMD.

A very important point, and one that is often overlooked.

Marc

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Sat May 16, 2009 3:37 am

philqw78 wrote:Also they must choose their direction of evade before rolling VMD.

They move then until obstructed (stopping 1 MU short of enemy, on meeting other obstructions, bursting through friends), but can only ever shift or contract one base width by any base of the evading BG.

So if the evaders declare they wish to evade to their rear, turn 180 degrees, and are immediately facing the rear/flank of an enemy unit within 1 MU, are they prevented from evading, even if by dropping back one file they could get clean away?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:01 am

If by dropping, or shifting, one base width they could pass all obstacles they can move. If they can't they don't.

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:15 am

philqw78 wrote:If by dropping, or shifting, one base width they could pass all obstacles they can move. If they can't they don't.

This seems to be key. If by dropping back they could clear the first obstruction, move, but then run up against a second obstruction which they are not permitted to try and clear, then they are not actually permitted to clear the first obstruction. Presumably they freeze in the headlights if the first obstruction is already 1 MU away?

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Sat May 16, 2009 8:38 am

zoltan wrote:
philqw78 wrote:If by dropping, or shifting, one base width they could pass all obstacles they can move. If they can't they don't.
This seems to be key. If by dropping back they could clear the first obstruction, move, but then run up against a second obstruction which they are not permitted to try and clear, then they are not actually permitted to clear the first obstruction. Presumably they freeze in the headlights if the first obstruction is already 1 MU away?

The key is the section of the evade rules that starts:

"If the above" (in this case a single base shift or slide by each element) "would not allow all front rank bases to complete their evade move"

Essentially you can only shift at all if you can make your entire evade move. If you can't make your entire evade move then you can't shift.

aventine · Post by **aventine** » Sat May 16, 2009 11:46 am

As routs follow the evade rules...

What then for an end pike block two files wide routing from a melee where it has been contacted to front and side. Could it get past the next pike BG given that the rout is at 45degrees. We have been discussing this one at lenght. Can the two wide pike block shift to get one file past the next BG and then drop back the other file. If it can't then it bursts through the next pike BG.

In other words do the bullet points on page 67 first column last two above diagram read as being separated by "and" /"or" or both?

As a club we are running a year long compo/league using the first two books. As a result there are lots of pike armies involved and this situation will pop up from time to time.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat May 16, 2009 1:22 pm

The pike BG will first turn 180 degrees. Then start to move following the front (what were the rear elelments) and wheeling 45 degrees to split the angel between pursuers. They could contract a file if necessary but I don't think they need to, as following elements wheel and move through the same spot as the front ones who do not need to burst through either.

The thing is no base can shift more than a base width wether contracting bases or just slipping left or right to avoid.

aventine · Post by **aventine** » Sat May 16, 2009 1:32 pm

So in another example...LH 2 wide evade to their rear and come up against a BG of their own. They could either shift up to one base width to pass or drop files back but cannot do both. Therefore a LH BG must have a one element path directly in its evade path of it brusts through?

We have been playing that it could shift allowing one file to complete its evade move then the other falls in behind them forming a 4 deep column, in other words doing both.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat May 16, 2009 2:12 pm

They can do both, but no base may shift more than one base width whatever it does

recharge · Post by **recharge** » Sat May 16, 2009 2:16 pm

Is it not the case that you can always evade to your rear? 180 turn then go.

Then wouldn't rout also be the same?

John

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat May 16, 2009 2:17 pm

Not always. You have the choice of directly to rear or directly away unless charged from flank or rear when you must evade directly away

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Sat May 16, 2009 2:22 pm

If charged in the flank or rear you must evade directly away from the charge. You do not get the option to evade directly to your rear. The same applies when a BG breaks from shooting or being charged while fragmented or breaking when fighting in two directions. You rout directly away from enemy, splitting the angle if there is more than one enemy BG involved in the action which resulted in the break.

aventine · Post by **aventine** » Sat May 16, 2009 3:53 pm

reference "They can do both, but no base may shift more than one base width whatever it does" how does that work if the battlegroup shifts up to one base width to get past the obstruction then all stands have already shifted and couldn't shift again to fall behind or am I missing the point here?

Evaders encountering obstructions

Evaders encountering obstructions

Re: Evaders encountering obstructions

Re: Evaders encountering obstructions