Standard Wagon needs buff

[gribol]

After some MP games, in my oppinion, Standard Wagon is not worth its price.
Please reconsider some kind buff this unit by, f.e.:

1. Lowering prise
or
2. Add some more combat value (more men, armor or morale, or everything at once)

This unit cost more than dismounted knights, fight worst, can be blocked by cheapest units and is very hard to use in proper way.

[rbodleyscott]

Thanks for the feedback. There may be some rebalancing of the points system in due course, but we won't rush into any changes until the game has been out long enough to get a lot more play experience.

We may change the points cost of Standard Wagons in due course, but we are unlikely to give them a buff.

[benos]

could they provide a bonus to morale to units nearby ? (been a few years since I played the tabletop game and cannot remember if they were in that )

They do seem pretty resiliant an unlikely to be pushed back so can anchor a flank a little ?

[Paul59]

In my experience they are incredibly tough units, I hardly ever bother attacking them. They certainly don't need a buff in my opinion, although having said that I rarely actually buy one given the choice. I would much rather spend points on something that can actually attack.

[companion]

To reap any value from the standard wagon, one must fight to roughly match the number of units routed with the opponent while fighting handicapped all the time by the cost sunk into the shiny wagon.

I thought the wagon received the "scythed chariot treatment" on purpose in order to make them a rare sight. If not, maybe add some more functionality?

[GamerMan]

How much do they increase the unit cap? I haven't had one die yet to try to work it out by hand (nor enough want yet to calculate from one lost unit). They do cost about the same as 5 peasants. And hiding peasants in the woods somewhere seems to have the same effect (padding out the rout percentage). Do they have about 5 Peasants worth of impact on the percentage?

[gribol]

Thanks for the feedback. There may be some rebalancing of the points system in due course, but we won't rush into any changes until the game has been out long enough to get a lot more play experience.

We may change the points cost of Standard Wagons in due course, but we are unlikely to give them a buff.

Lowering price will be nice.
But maybe +POA against Impact Mounted?

[rbodleyscott]

How much do they increase the unit cap? I haven't had one die yet to try to work it out by hand (nor enough want yet to calculate from one lost unit). They do cost about the same as 5 peasants. And hiding peasants in the woods somewhere seems to have the same effect (padding out the rout percentage). Do they have about 5 Peasants worth of impact on the percentage?

They count as 3 times their actual size, which, as they are larger than standard infantry units, means they are worth the same as 3.75 standard infantry units.

[pompeytheflatulent]

They count as 3 times their actual size, which, as they are larger than standard infantry units, means they are worth the same as 3.75 standard infantry units.

So you are saying that 2 units of peasants do more to pad out the rout %, AND stand a much better chance of beating a unit of raw crossbowmen?

[rbodleyscott]

They count as 3 times their actual size, which, as they are larger than standard infantry units, means they are worth the same as 3.75 standard infantry units.

So you are saying that 2 units of peasants do more to pad out the rout %, AND stand a much better chance of beating a unit of raw crossbowmen?

Actually they have the same effect on rout % as 3 units of peasants. The calculation is based on the internal UnitSize value, not the number of men.

3 units of peasants are far more likely to get routed, and cannot hold a position in the battle line. Good luck finding a unit of raw crossbowmen for them to defeat without running into something tougher first.

But ultimately, Standard Wagons are not compulsory in any army list, so unless you are playing an Epic Battle you don't have to use them if you don't think they are worthwhile. And in the Epic Battles the points spent on them are pretty much lost in the total points each side has.

We may adjust them at a later date, but it is hardly a matter of dire urgency, and we would prefer people to get more playing time in before we implement any changes. We have already said we will review them in due course.

[pompeytheflatulent]

I actually wouldn't mind too much if as part of some future patch they were made a mandatory buy alongside of a small price reduction. It'll be like the command tent in Sengoku Jidai - it comes with the territory and you just have to learn to deal with it. Because as they stand now I don't see many people using them other than for shits and giggles. Hell even at a price range of 40-50 points I wouldn't buy the wagon, I'll take the 3 peasants instead on the off chance that they get to beat up some knight that wandered into forests or rough ground.

[rbodleyscott]

Hell even at a price range of 40-50 points I wouldn't buy the wagon, I'll take the 3 peasants instead on the off chance that they get to beat up some knight that wandered into forests or rough ground.

And thereby gain the "Against All Odds" STEAM achievement! (Currently achieved by 0.3% of the STEAM player base, and even that is something of a miracle).

[jimwinsor]

I've had one of my own Fragmented knight units routed by peasants before (hides face in shame).

[pompeytheflatulent]

I've had one of my own Fragmented knight units routed by peasants before (hides face in shame).

I don't think that counts. What I'm thinking of is more along the lines of this:

Screen_00000000.jpg (542 KiB) Viewed 1641 times

[Jagger2002]

Never mind... just found the info.