Superior Pikes

flamingpig0 · Post by **flamingpig0** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:31 pm

Are superior pikes worth the extra point cost? I keep looking at Later Macedonians but wonder if the lack of frontage against contemporary opponents and their one dimensional nature makes them problematic, or at the very least difficult to use effectively.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:09 pm

Opinions differ on this. There was only recently a lively discussion about this on the Mailinglist as someone claimed that superior pikes (Swiss in this case) are unstoppable.
In the end it depends on the opposition, but personally I think taking a 2-3 BG of superior pikes with the later Macedonians is worth it. The army pretty much relies on the pikes to do the winning.

footslogger · Post by **footslogger** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:49 pm

I'm mostly in the camp of them not being worth it. I have a couple of successor lists where I use a block of 12 pk(s) but for the most part pk(o) are fine. pk(s) are really tough to beat frontally so extending frontage is important. Although I haven't faced it, I wouldn't be too afraid of an army like the swiss as I just can't imagine it's that hard to get on the flanks.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:01 pm

footslogger wrote:I'm mostly in the camp of them not being worth it. I have a couple of successor lists where I use a block of 12 pk(s) but for the most part pk(o) are fine. pk(s) are really tough to beat frontally so extending frontage is important. Although I haven't faced it, I wouldn't be too afraid of an army like the swiss as I just can't imagine it's that hard to get on the flanks.

Getting on their flanks is no trouble the problum comes when they pass a cmt and turn 90 degrees and move to you and then end up facing the sharp bits. Also with swiss they can have halberd troops good for flank protection.

Dave

rtaylor · Post by **rtaylor** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:21 pm

I've a hunch that Superiority is more important at the end of the battle line, where it can be overlapped (in close combat and shooting alike) and it might have to form orb. Maintaining cohesion is absolutely vital to the survival of a BG in orb.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:21 pm

Also think of it this way. You can be average and put a general with them or superior and not.

If I had an average group of 12 I might want a general there, but it isn't worth as much in an 8.

Also Pike suffer enormously from a disorder and the superior gives them an ability to dice out of a bad role. Not to be overlooked either.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Fri May 01, 2009 1:52 pm

I'll tell you after Clash of Empires in Perth WA. I am giving Seleucids a bash in open comp.

Anthony

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 pm

I would say one block of 12 are worth it mixed in with the average guys. The price differential is not too painful then. It then means that your pike line is just a bit better than armoured spearmen, for example. Also if you check a general in you've got 6 dice that are going to hit most of the time so they'll break through quickly.

guitarmeniac · Post by **guitarmeniac** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:28 pm

i would suggest 12s of averages and if using the later selecuid list buy the romans

MARVIN_THE_ARVN · Post by **MARVIN_THE_ARVN** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:45 pm

I have used later carthaginians with african veterans against superior pike and it was a close run thing with the african veterans just coming out on top.

I have also used superior roman legionaries against average pike, the pike pretty much crumbled once they had a couple of bad dice rolls.

If my main attack arm I would go for superior as they are more likely to survive a freak dice roll and break the opposition quickly.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:03 pm

I have used 1 block of superior pikes with 2 blocks of ordinary pikes in my Selucid army and I would say they are worth the points. Almost every game they will be the last pike block to run away, thus holding back at least 3 enemy battle groups, the re-rolls they get allows a general to join an average pike block and bring it up to superior status so more re-rolls on those darn I missed melee's. If you can get a re-rolling BG I would suggest you go for it in your army worth the points in the long run.