Commander bonus in CMT

olivier · Post by **olivier** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:48 am

This week, in last comp we found an special situation:
In bleu : 2 BG of Brave allied Gepid lancer Und, Prot, Sup, L, Sw., one of them have his FC general attached. In Front of them 2 BG of resolute but definitive Ostrogoth rabble LF Und, Unp, Av, Bw protecting the brave allies from the arrows of the foul 2 Red BG of Huns Cav, Und, Unp, Sup, Bw, Sw.

In the Ostrogoth impact phase, the Brave Gepid must test to charge through the Ostrogothic screen.
The roll for left group is 5 and he must burst through but the right one roll a 7.
The argument is:
Is the Gepid commander must add the adjustement for "in range" to the CMT or can he choose to forfeit it?
Same question for the left BG.

At the end, the Ostrogoth ride to glory and with their Gepid allies finished the comp at the most honourable second place.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:09 am

I have asked this before. Was told they must add if in range. My own opinion was they should be able to add or subtract. But that would need more rules

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:31 am

There is no option to not add the +1. If you really want a BG to burst through friends then the trick is to send the commander out of command radius in the JAP before you have to test.

shall · Post by **shall** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:01 pm

No option at present ... but one stored for VS 1.2 in due course.

Si

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:07 pm

shall wrote:No option at present ... but one stored for VS 1.2 in due course.

Si

What happened to V1.1?????

shall · Post by **shall** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:58 pm

It won't be in that one

olivier · Post by **olivier** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:02 pm

No option at present

Too bad

In fact it's better to have a TC than a FC or an IC in this case

because with a TC you may join the melee after the initial rush but not with a FC.

shall · Post by **shall** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:53 am

Yes perhaps. When we get to vs 1.1 I think we can do a little more tweaking to make ICs, FCs and TCs more equal. FCs least valuable ingeneral at the moment.

Si

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:22 am

shall wrote:Yes perhaps. When we get to vs 1.1 I think we can do a little more tweaking to make ICs, FCs and TCs more equal. FCs least valuable ingeneral at the moment.

Si

Tweaks.

Oh no!

(Except making the bonus optional makes sense)

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:03 am

shall wrote:No option at present ... but one stored for VS 1.2 in due course.

Si

Or not.

The burst through rules are not meant to be something you can perform at will, they are meant to represent eager troops disobeying orders.

I don't envisage that we will be changing the rules to allow commanders to be able to influence troops in favour of disobeying their own orders. Making the bonus optional is equally illogical.

We certainly won't be amending the rules to make cheese more easy to perform - and deliberately trying to get your troops to burst through a skirmish screen is unhistorical cheese. If charging through skirmishers was a valid intentional historical tactic, we would have allowed it in the normal interpenetrations.

MadBanker · Post by **MadBanker** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:41 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
shall wrote:No option at present ... but one stored for VS 1.2 in due course.

Si
Or not.

The burst through rules are not meant to be something you can perform at will, they are meant to represent eager troops disobeying orders.

I don't envisage that we will be changing the rules to allow commanders to be able to influence troops in favour of disobeying their own orders. Making the bonus optional is equally illogical.

We certainly won't be amending the rules to make cheese more easy to perform - and deliberately trying to get your troops to burst through a skirmish screen is unhistorical cheese. If charging through skirmishers was a valid intentional historical tactic, we would have allowed it in the normal interpenetrations.

+1

I was getting a little worried that it could be allowed.
Hopefully, cheese won't appear on the menu.

shall · Post by **shall** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:29 pm

Don't think there will ever be any chesse added - not our style. Just need to get the LF out of the way - as any good general would.

Basically the reason that is there - apart form realism - is that we don't want people moving up and charging bow armed troops without having to take any fire. This would be a bad effect in game balance.

Si

pbrandon · Post by **pbrandon** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:02 pm

shall · Post by **shall** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:38 pm

Well done Paul.

Yes it can be done but not easy.

Si

olivier · Post by **olivier** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:17 pm

We certainly won't be amending the rules to make cheese more easy to perform - and deliberately trying to get your troops to burst through a skirmish screen is unhistorical cheese.

But France is the country of cheese!

( 320 differents last count...)
......And we have a long tradition of bursting through our shooting troops ...

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:43 pm

olivier wrote:
We certainly won't be amending the rules to make cheese more easy to perform - and deliberately trying to get your troops to burst through a skirmish screen is unhistorical cheese.
But France is the country of cheese! ( 320 differents last count...)
......And we have a long tradition of bursting through our shooting troops ...

But not as part of the plan.

olivier · Post by **olivier** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:57 pm

A plan?

where?
Our good king Phillipe VI had this immortal quote:
« Tuez toute cette ribaudaille, car ilz nous empeschent la voie! ».
A good case to influence troops to burst through your own mercenary! ( not the best idea, I agree

)

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:01 pm

I've to agree, permitting a commander to not apply (or even deduct) his bonus might work to portrait commanders who are themselves a bit "trigger happy" and perhaps not to happy with the overall plan. I can also see the possible cheese in it though, so probably best restricted to individual scenarious or optional (house) rules.

marioslaz · Post by **marioslaz** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:17 am

olivier wrote:But France is the country of cheese! ( 320 differents last count...)

Yes but your cheese (pardon, fromage) are all soft

Have you something like our "Pecorino di fossa"

Returning to serious question, I agree with Si. A general who encourages troops to disobey orders doesn't sound good.

olivier · Post by **olivier** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:40 am

Yes but your cheese (pardon, fromage) are all soft Exclamation Have you something like our "Pecorino di fossa" Question Laughing

Try Abondance, Beaufort or Comté...

not so dry than Pecorino di fossa or Parmaggiano but certainly not called soft cheese

Returning to serious question, I agree with Si. A general who encourages troops to disobey orders doesn't sound good.

Technically each civil war in Roman empire began with a general who encourage troops to disobey.

And Callinicum was initiated because some of the Belissarius officer want a fight.
I agree with Si and Richard to not deduct the commander bonus but I think they are some example of commander looking other way when some of their troops demonstrated an manly impetus