Artillery in open competitions

urbanbunny1 · Post by **urbanbunny1** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:03 pm

What has been peoples experience with artillery in open competitions? I've been thinking of bringing in artillery with my French Ordonnance and was wondering how people have found them to work.

Slim

100% All Natural Urban Bunny

stecal · Post by **stecal** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:08 pm

other than as cheap BGs to beef up your army size and protect the camp or sit behind wagon laager with the Francs Archers they have little use. No one will go near them for sure. 30-40 pt BGs are good when your Superior knight BGs run over 100 pts for 4! .

urbanbunny1 · Post by **urbanbunny1** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:34 am

Guess no one wants to play with the big noisy toys. I do like the idea to be about to reach out and touch troops, especially those shooty cav/LH who always run away when my knights charge after them.

Slim

100% All Natural Urban Bunny

Aetius · Post by **Aetius** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:45 am

Not my experiance I'm afraid. I used a 1 BG of Light Guns in my 15mm Swiss at last years Britcon & they fell pry to LH in just about every game I played (other than the one where I had then in anbush in a gully & then a unit of LF Crossbows had them!).
They are certainly not cheap @ 30pts per BG & they are pretty much immobile - as you need a test just to move them, let alone wheel them to face an enemy approaching your on the flank.

On the plus side - a 6" range, 4 dice in shooting and low dice to hit helps - if anything is daft enough to get stuck in front of them - and the minus for 'shot at by firearms' (note: not actually causing a casualty but just being shot at) is also good if you put them in a firing line with other missile troops.

It would be interesting to see a number of LG BGs mixed with LF crossbows and large pike blocks - such as in a Later Flemish army but I think the guns just become soft targets for enemy melee troops & I doubt they'll come off that well against LB.
Maybe in 28mm games with restricted manouverability they might cause issues.
It's worth a go & they do add 'colour' to an army.

Cheers

stenic · Post by **stenic** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:18 am

Last Bank Holiday we did 1000AP Dom Roms vs 1000AP Late Carthage and I took 2 BGs of Lt Art. I had a plan but immediately blew it by changing my deployement as I lay down the troops. My right flank was covered by the 2 Art BGs and 2 BGs of superior Roman MF bow and a BG of LF bow. I compounded my depoyment mistake by advancing my Legions and then having to advance my shooty wing and swing out to protect the flank of the legions. I had an IC with them so because I could easily pass CMTs I felt I should be moving them... another mistake.

The net result was that the enemy were able to use LH to good effect and charge the artillery before I could even shoot them. The risk was high but it meant that his Hvy Foot were able to waltz into contact with my line and I lost a couple of rounds of shooting and thus any benefi of the artillery. His LH collapsed and ran off of course but the damage was done and my line of artillery and bow crumpled !!

Moral of the story is don't over extend them, use them to hold a protected flank (not an open one!!) or gap and roll good dice!

I'd like to try them more as having painted them I'd like to play with them, but at the moment it's hard to justify them unless playing 900 or 1000AP.

Steve P

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:49 pm

Artillery is clearly overpriced, evidence of which is the fact that nobody uses it. I think a lot of people will agree that this is a shame, because we have the figures and would like to get them on the table.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:06 pm

Or maybe people just haven't figured out how to use it yet ...

stecal · Post by **stecal** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:18 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:Or maybe people just haven't figured out how to use it yet ...

Enlighten us, O Sensei...

The only trick I found is that you can advance deploy artillery up to 15" if they are behind wagonlaager fortifications. 12" still doesn't quite reach the enemy lines though

Niceas · Post by **Niceas** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:29 pm

stecal wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:Or maybe people just haven't figured out how to use it yet ...
Enlighten us, O Sensei...

Yes, do tell.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:52 pm

Hey I'm in the people who haven't worked out how to use it camp

Best use I've seen of it so far is with Heavy Art placed to sweep a part of the field that in all probability the enemy has to cross - I've lost a BG thanks to the -ve CT factor for being shot at by Art when going for an enemy BG I really had to go for to press my attack but meant I came within Art range.

Niceas · Post by **Niceas** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:25 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:Hey I'm in the people who haven't worked out how to use it camp

Best use I've seen of it so far is with Heavy Art placed to sweep a part of the field that in all probability the enemy has to cross - I've lost a BG thanks to the -ve CT factor for being shot at by Art when going for an enemy BG I really had to go for to press my attack but meant I came within Art range.

That does seem to be the sweet spot.

In a recent game with my Burgundians against the French, we both lined up artillery behind fortfications. Neither of us had the stomach to try storming that, and so it became a big area denier for both of us, and the real battle happened elsewhere.

Perhaps making little redoubts around the field might be useful, like in DBR.

urbanbunny1 · Post by **urbanbunny1** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:55 am

With the redoubt idea, are you thinking deploying the artillery behind fortifications deep into the table?

Was thinking of trying that, but then worried about my flanks. LH always seem rude and won't come and play to the front, they run around to your flank and then attack you.

Slim

100% All Natural Urban Bunny

stecal · Post by **stecal** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:43 am

To paraphrase, " Troops defending FF cannot be charged in flank/rear across the FF or sufferthe -POA for being charged in 2 directions and turn to face the contacted edge"

So buy a "box" of 4+ FF to cover all 4 sides. Expensive, perhaps

Niceas · Post by **Niceas** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:20 pm

urbanbunny1 wrote:With the redoubt idea, are you thinking deploying the artillery behind fortifications deep into the table?

Was thinking of trying that, but then worried about my flanks. LH always seem rude and won't come and play to the front, they run around to your flank and then attack you.

Slim

100% All Natural Urban Bunny

LH are overrated, I've decided. You really can't use them in FoG to slap people in the flank, like in the DBx rules, as they don't cause the cohesion drop for non-skirmishers for flank contact , and their shooting is anemic.

Large numbers of them may be annoying to be sure, but if you've got any foot bows or real cavalry, you just chase them away.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:04 pm

Niceas wrote:
urbanbunny1 wrote:With the redoubt idea, are you thinking deploying the artillery behind fortifications deep into the table?

Was thinking of trying that, but then worried about my flanks. LH always seem rude and won't come and play to the front, they run around to your flank and then attack you.

Slim

100% All Natural Urban Bunny
LH are overrated, I've decided. You really can't use them in FoG to slap people in the flank, like in the DBx rules, as they don't cause the cohesion drop for non-skirmishers for flank contact , and their shooting is anemic.

Large numbers of them may be annoying to be sure, but if you've got any foot bows or real cavalry, you just chase them away.

And they then come back again....

I don't think LH are overrated and yes they don't drop you a level but if they charge a BG fighting to their front already then you do suffer the - for fighting in two directions. They are ment to just be there all the time to annoy you which they do quite well.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:45 pm

Wasn't it not long ago people were saying LH/LH armies were too good. Oh and pike too good then too bad, and Roman Legio useless, then brill, Dom Romans, shooty Cav, Swiss.

What is too good today?

Mob. The extra base depth when they are just glorified MF. Bloody liberty.

But then again they are rubbish. And i'm sure someone will argue the point either way.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:15 pm

I'm looking at using a Low Countries army with max LA interspersed with the HF/OSp. The arty will be in between the HF BGs which will be deployed in depth so that the arty will be able to shoot when the enemy approaches then the OSp will advance and can then expand once melee is initiated.
IC, 2 x TC
6 BG - 8x HF, D, A, P, -, OSp
3 BG - 2x LA, U, A, LA, -
2 BG - 4x HF, D, A, P, -, HW (for rear support)
1 BG - 8x MF, D, A, P, XB, -
1 BG - 6x LF, D, A, P, Bow, -
1 BG - 6x LF, D, A, U, FA, -
14 BGs
The army is a tad immobile and the flanks are hanging in the wind unless I get some decent terrain to anchor on, but it's definitely an historical configuration.
I too tried putting all the arty behind FF in the middle of the table once, and watched my opponent mass on one flank, and roll me over before I could redeploy the troops on the far side. I like the idea of redoubts. Can also serve as an excellent launching point for BGs deployed directly behind the arty, since troops can interpenetrate arty. OK, I admit that it's a bit cheesy.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:56 pm

philqw78 wrote:Wasn't it not long ago people were saying LH/LH armies were too good. Oh and pike too good then too bad, and Roman Legio useless, then brill, Dom Romans, shooty Cav, Swiss.

What is too good today?

Mob. The extra base depth when they are just glorified MF. Bloody liberty.

But then again they are rubbish. And i'm sure someone will argue the point either way.

You forgot to say Knights are too good, longbows are too good English Halberds are too good(just english cause they can run through their bow mates)MF armies are too good.......
And I've not said anything about those Picts.............

Dave

recharge · Post by **recharge** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:11 pm

david53 wrote:
philqw78 wrote:Wasn't it not long ago people were saying LH/LH armies were too good. Oh and pike too good then too bad, and Roman Legio useless, then brill, Dom Romans, shooty Cav, Swiss.

What is too good today?

Mob. The extra base depth when they are just glorified MF. Bloody liberty.

But then again they are rubbish. And i'm sure someone will argue the point either way.
You forgot to say Knights are too good, longbows are too good English Halberds are too good(just english cause they can run through their bow mates)MF armies are too good.......
And I've not said anything about those Picts.............
Dave

Say something

I just finished basing up a ton of them

John

urbanbunny1 · Post by **urbanbunny1** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:24 pm

My idea behind using the fortifications was to give me some terrain that I can depend on.

Playing with Knights, I normally can't afford to buy an IC, so, when I play against the steepe armies, I seem to have my proverbial hanging out in the wind.

Was thinking to use the fortifications, artillery and a mixture of poor and normal long bow to form a wall. The knights and the cav would go and play together.

Gav and I gave it a run last night and it sort of worked. The normal bow survived behind the fortifcations, but Gav charged my poor bow with his cav and it ended up very messy.