Next Patch Wishes

[robman]

One thing still coming to my mind is that it would be nice to be able to check all "switches" of a switch unit in the purchase screen *before* buying.

Dunno if it is easy to implement, but it would be still quite helpful IMO. Since the purchase screen is divided by class it could maybe be done by having a window popping up when you click a switch unit where you could cycle through its other modes (like the unit info panel when right-clicking a unit on-map, just showing all those switches).

Once this is implemented, it could in fact also be enhanced to have the same ready in said unit panel.

I agree, this would be helpful and sensible, since the only alternative is to dig into the equipment file, something the average player will not want to do, or know how to do.

[4kEY]

What files will this patch replace upon installation? I am interested in avoiding a traumatic experience. Thank you.

[Rudankort]

What files will this patch replace upon installation? I am interested in avoiding a traumatic experience. Thank you.

Our patches are full packages, they update all game files, not just the ones which changed since the last version. What traumatic experience exactly do you want to avoid? Maybe we can advice more if we know more?

[4kEY]

Thanks, Rudankort. I will backup files which I've altered, like graphics and efx.

Can you tell me, is this patch included in the CD for '42-'43 West? I would like to avoid having to download a file that large from the internet, since I have limited bandwidth. I will nonetheless if it is not included in the box.

[Rudankort]

Can you tell me, is this patch included in the CD for '42-'43 West? I would like to avoid having to download a file that large from the internet, since I have limited bandwidth. I will nonetheless if it is not included in the box.

All DLCs include the patch required for their work. GC 42-43 West cannot work without 1.11, so it does include this patch.

[4kEY]

Of course...not everyone has internet

It is good of Slitherine to ensure no one buys the game Babbages only to find it doesn't work

[Ballermann]

Our patches are full packages, they update all game files, not just the ones which changed since the last version.

Why?
For my opinion it is better to put only the newest into a new Patch.
For Modder it will help a lot.

[Rudankort]

Why?
For my opinion it is better to put only the newest into a new Patch.
For Modder it will help a lot.

This was discussed many times, and last time just recently:
viewtopic.php?p=358454&f=121#p358454

[VPaulus]

Why?
For my opinion it is better to put only the newest into a new Patch.
For Modder it will help a lot.

Yes it removes the potential user error of installing the wrong patch or in the wrong order and also fixes any issues related to corrupt files. A patch will always get you back a working version of the game.

[Chris10]

I mean...why da heck is it neccessary to encrypt the scenario files and savegames ? ...there is no sensible reason for doin so.
A prime example for exemplary modding friendly games is Paradox Interactive with its own games (Hearts of Iron,Europa Universalis etc)...everything (including savegames, AI files, scenario files) can be edited with Notepad cause they are all textbased...
which let to the fact that even 2012 the HoI II engine is alive and even officially licensed new titles have been developed by modders in the last 3 years..> Darkest Hour, Arsenal of Democracy just to name 2

[Shrike]

One word: multiplayer. That's pretty much the only reason for encryption I can think of.

[KeldorKatarn]

I really don't understand why people still quote Paradox as one of the most community and modder friendly developers.

They may release everything in a easily modable state but from my perspective as a developer I am inclined to think they actually do this out of lazyness, not modder friendlyness. They're engine and data handling is not optimized, they usually have assets from old games still in the game that are installed without reason just because they cannot be bothered to clean up the asset forlder for a new game.

Their games are buggy and unoptimized as hell upon release, after the HoI III desaster with unplayable speed upon release, cities like Stalingrad (pretty unimportant city huh) located 400km off on the map, map names not displaying correctly, performance drops, crashes...

And when we modders complained about it, know what happened? They closed the forums and allowed only registered buyers so everybody who knew about the problems and waited with buying until fixes were releases could no longer participate in the discussion. Even registered customers of all former titles and developers of large mods for the former titles were not allowed, not even in the modding forums.

Fanboys accused customers of being unreasonable since obvious map errors "could be modded out", supporting the bad development of developers missusing modders as bugfixers.

And when we modders asked them to at least appologize for the screwup and promised to continue to support them if they at least admit they simply didn't get everything done in time and promise to fix everything, we got banned from the forums. (And yes, putting Stalingrad in the middle of Aserbaidschan instead of near the Volga, IS a screwup that is so obvious it is painfully obvious there was no beta testing done AT ALL and the QA department was not existing)

Compared to that the product quality of Panzer Corps is very very good. And not having all assets just lying around as normal files also serves to very much increase loading times. A mod toolset to decrypt them and replace files in some kind of mod folder would be nice yes, make it a bit easier, but from a customers standpoint I am very happy with PzC and here I know that I spend my money on a well tested product. Minor bugs are fixed very fast and there's hardly any in the game at all when new content is released.

Paradox doesn't know the first thing about developing a well tested product or maintaining a product. They continue to screw up development time budgets, spending up to a year after release getting the product to a state that deserves the name Master by releasing dozens of patches.

For some fanboys that may be eldorado, for me it is simply unprofessional people who have no idea how to keep a game in budget and treat their community with respect. Not even close to the great relationship customers have here to Slitherine and the Lordz.

I'd accept a job offer from them anyday, Paradox would end up in the Spam folder.

[Chris10]

wall of text...

1. I didnt said community friendly..I said modding friendly...there is a huge difference and...
2. ....nothing of what you said had anything to do with what I said...it was and is completely irrelevant for the point I am promoting...
I dont care for your personal experience with Paradox...I had my own issues with them and gave up on a bigger project for Arsenal of Democracy but that doesnt change the fact that their own games, which are highly more complex than PzC, are completely accessable...anything else is not of interest for discussing the encryption of certain PzC files

[KeldorKatarn]

Community friendly is strongly connected to modding friendly. Yes one can easily edit certain files in their products, but I tried to make the point that their choice of file formats is lazy and poorly implemented since it decreses performance for a non-modded game.

As for the community friendlyness, the PzC developers do continue to respond to modder suggestions and scenario editor requests and also add features for their own addons. Paradox spends years fixing the game, adding nothing of real value, and repeatedly ignored modder requests or even banned modders (and that's not personal experience, that's me witnessing entire midding communities leaving, not just me as one guy) for requesting simple features like asking to be able to replace the flag of a country by script. The script files were badly designed, buggy, undocumented...
Compared to that the scenario editor and equipment files or PzC are a dream.

So despite having said too much about personal experience, the point remains that I do not consider Paradox games more mod friendly, except for very minor changes. As soon as you start modding major stuff you run into problems all over the place and no developer will really support you as they are still busy fixing the main game.
all their open file formats do is slow down the game because the assets are not nicely packed in asset data files but in single files for every single sprite, flag and whatever. And it shows ingame. Loading times are crap, and the entire perfomance of the game limits any large scale modding too because the engine cannot handle it.

I spend 2 years working on one of the larger mods for their games so I know a little about what I'm talking about. Yes it is still a personal experience but that experience leaves very little in terms of "mod friendliness". As a modder I had nothing but trouble with them.

[Chris10]

Iam sorry..I probably explained myself badly...so I try again
I dont care for Paradox in general nor I care for your experience with them or your opinion about them
You conveniently completely ignore that the Europa Universalis/Heart of Iron engine (the old and the new) is infinitely more complex than the PzC engine and loading times and/or performance (fps) are irrelevant here..so whats your point ?
Iam raising a valid question about the encryption cause even if scenario files are textbased it would not make the slightest difference for PanzerCorps performance since its all static data which is loaded on launching the game...and NO...a few textfiles of a few MB have no whatsoever noticeable impact on loading times cause they are read in deciseseconds or even less...
So pls excuse my ignorance but maybe you can enlighten me a bit of what your contribution, other than rant, really consisted, in regard to the the issue raised by me or next patch wishes in general ?

[El_Condoro]

This is getting way off track. Perhaps take the two-way discussion offline through PMs?

The question about how the patch will be delivered and the encryption of scenarios is, of course, on track.

[Rudankort]

I mean...why da heck is it neccessary to encrypt the scenario files and savegames ? ...there is no sensible reason for doin so.

Well, I don't want people meddling with saved games for various reasons. On one hand, this could compromise Multiplayer, as was noted above. And it would compromise single player too, in case an online scoring was introduced or something like that. On the other hand, I don't want to limit myself with changing saved game format. Preserving backwards-compatibility in saves is painful enough as it is. When PzC released last year, its saved game format started at version 1. It is at 46 currently, and in most cases backwards compatibility was preserved. And finally, why would you want to modify the saves? Most things which people did in PG using saved game editor are possible in PzC using cheats. This is easier and more accessible to more people.

As for scenarios... we only properly encrypt the content created by us. This is done for protection. Starting from 1.10 you have all PzC and AK scenarios in the game folder, but you cannot play the content which you do not own. This approach makes maintenance of all different packages (stand-alone PzC, stand-alone AK, combined PzC+AK installation, the patches) much easier, but we needed some protection in place.

Scenarios created by the modders are not encrypted, but they are binary, not plain text. The reason for this is, when the game was originally developed, I did not see why anyone would want to edit scenario files directly, with the editor available to modders from day one. Map data in particular is not easy to manipulate in "raw" format because the map is hex based, and so what you see in the file does not correspond well to what you get in the game. I thought back then that even if some useful features were missing from the editor, they could be added there for the benefit of all people involved. However, I learned since then that some modders want to do pretty complex data manipulations with scenario files, which existing editor cannot do for you, and which do not make sense as features because few people would use or even understand them, while the UI would become more complex for all people using the editor. So yeah, apparently allowing modder-made tools to manipulate scenario file can be useful. Something to keep in mind for the future.

[bebro]

I just want to post two wishes that arised in the "cheat codes" thread, just in case:

1. Allowing *enter* being used to get through briefings/debriefings (alternative to always mouse-click on "proceed")

2. A shortcut for the switch command

[Rudankort]

2. A shortcut for the switch command

Any specific suggestions what key to use for this?

[Chris10]

1. Allowing *enter* being used to get through briefings/debriefings (alternative to always mouse-click on "proceed")
2. A shortcut for the switch command

+1

Scenarios created by the modders are not encrypted, but they are binary, not plain text. The reason for this is, when the game was originally developed, I did not see why anyone would want to edit scenario files directly, with the editor available to modders from day one. Map data in particular is not easy to manipulate in "raw" format because the map is hex based, and so what you see in the file does not correspond well to what you get in the game. I thought back then that even if some useful features were missing from the editor, they could be added there for the benefit of all people involved. However, I learned since then that some modders want to do pretty complex data manipulations with scenario files, which existing editor cannot do for you, and which do not make sense as features because few people would use or even understand them, while the UI would become more complex for all people using the editor. So yeah, apparently allowing modder-made tools to manipulate scenario file can be useful. Something to keep in mind for the future.

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