Question about Units Stats / Proposal

[Steakenglisch]

In the actual version of the Beta the Problem with the teethless AntiAir Guns seems to be solved, now my LevelBombers lost strength Points when Bombing AA Guns or units beside. An my nearly 4 Star 8,8mm AA Gun makes decent damage against air and ground units. By the way i love the switching function, between the roles of aa and at gun! Good work!

[Obsolete]

I have not been able to see this switching system. Does it not come on auxilliary 88's?

[Rudankort]

I have not been able to see this switching system. Does it not come on auxilliary 88's?

Of course it should work on any unit with this ability, corew and aux alike. What unit type exactly did you try (there are several 88s), maybe we missed it when we were updating eqp table for this feature?

[Obsolete]

That Sicily map, has a few Aux 88's, but I may have been missing something obvious. I didn't see any method to target ground crews.

[Rudankort]

That Sicily map, has a few Aux 88's, but I may have been missing something obvious. I didn't see any method to target ground crews.

I see one 88mm unit in Sicily, at 25,23, and it is able to switch between AT and AA roles. Just use Switch button (the right-bottom button in the big 9-button block in the UI). Italian AA guns, on the other hand, cannot do this.

[uran21]

Question to devs:
Could you change Dornier 335 into Tactical Bomber? It should have similar role as Mosquito ... fast Tact Bomber with very high Air Defense, active Air Attack and relatively low Ground Attack.

In many cases we have stretched presentation of equipment regarding their class role. Take Bf 110 for example, designed as heavy fighter presented as tactical bomber. So I am not convinced we could achieve much with it. From gameplay point of view it would only open a new question, how to balance it right in relation to other bombers.

[Steakenglisch]

Question to devs:
Could you change Dornier 335 into Tactical Bomber? It should have similar role as Mosquito ... fast Tact Bomber with very high Air Defense, active Air Attack and relatively low Ground Attack.

In many cases we have stretched presentation of equipment regarding their class role. Take Bf 110 for example, designed as heavy fighter presented as tactical bomber. So I am not convinced we could achieve much with it. From gameplay point of view it would only open a new question, how to balance it right in relation to other bombers.

Uran i have 2 Questions:
1. The Fuel of the Fw190 f and g is extreme low, is this correct???
2. Is the 88mm Flak the only unit in Game witch can switched between ground and air mode or is this with all german Flaks possible?

[uran21]

Uran i have 2 Questions:
1. The Fuel of the Fw190 f and g is extreme low, is this correct???
2. Is the 88mm Flak the only unit in Game witch can switched between ground and air mode or is this with all german Flaks possible?

88 is the only switchable flak but not the only switchable unit. There are some anti-tank artillery switches and vice versa.
Check this thread about it: viewtopic.php?p=225986#225986

Fuel stats were made from operational range. There is always possibility of mistake but first look at references shows operational range to be around 500km for f version. Will need to double check.

[uran21]

Main problem is that it is hard to show all qualities / roles of fighters in simply stats.

Example:
- some of planes were very good at low altitudes, while other ones were good at high; Tempest, La-7, FW-190A vs Mustang, FW-190D9, Thunderbolt;
- some of the planes were very agile - should the Air Defense be increased? What about planes that were very agile, but not too sturdy (like Japanese Zero)?
What about planes that were generally very durable, but not too agile (Thunderbolt)?
- some of planes weren't the fastest or best armed, but their power was in the phenomenal climbing ability (Me-109 in early part of war, Spit in 44-45) - how to balance them :] ?

Switched here: viewtopic.php?p=226039#226039

[skarczew]

Question to devs:
Could you change Dornier 335 into Tactical Bomber? It should have similar role as Mosquito ... fast Tact Bomber with very high Air Defense, active Air Attack and relatively low Ground Attack.

In many cases we have stretched presentation of equipment regarding their class role. Take Bf 110 for example, designed as heavy fighter presented as tactical bomber. So I am not convinced we could achieve much with it. From gameplay point of view it would only open a new question, how to balance it right in relation to other bombers.

How to balance? I wrote there ...

It should have similar role as Mosquito ... fast Tact Bomber with very high Air Defense, active Air Attack and relatively low Ground Attack.

Personally, I'd prefer to have few interesting weapons which I may use on some occasions, rather than lots of units that do not differ much (except for fancy graphics).
Lots of the same units = I will use the best one anyway.

If some of the units would be unique (like 88 mm cannon), there is bigger chance I may use it - and the game will be less boring.

[uran21]

^^To make long story short, there are three reasons why your proposal sounds tempting to me.

-By removing one unit from fighter list it would be easier to balance other fighters by superseding scheme.

-Last tactical bomber that appears in the game jumps in in 1943 so some late fancy equipment would be a good add on.

-Current statistics of Do 335 compared to Fw 190 F and G do not need no tweaks except in section of soft and hard attack.

Even if SA and HA are the same combination of initiative, air attack and air defense would make the difference.

I would give it SA 6 and HA 7 or 8.

[uran21]

@Steakenglisch

F-3 and F-8 versions have different operational range where F-8 has bigger one but I used F-3 for reference, didn't look for G model but from gameplay point of view it is not good to have such small fuel value so late unless you want to penalize unit for some reason so will increase fuel for both of those units and was thinking to rearrange date of appearances for better upgrade path so G model will be available before Overlord.

[uran21]

- Capital Ships vs Level Bombers
I think the naval Attack of the level Bombers is too high or the capital ships are too weak. During Overlord i anhilated the whole Allied fleet with 2 x He177a overstrength 15.
One Attack, one ship sunk!!! Only one Capital Ship survided the first attack with two points. After the second attack it was also on the ground.

I think the ships must be tougher, 2 or 3 Attacks too sink one.

Situation you observed here is not the unit statistics problem but effect of experience and overstrength.

[skarczew]

^^To make long story short, there are three reasons why your proposal sounds tempting to me.

-By removing one unit from fighter list it would be easier to balance other fighters by superseding scheme.

-Last tactical bomber that appears in the game jumps in in 1943 so some late fancy equipment would be a good add on.

-Current statistics of Do 335 compared to Fw 190 F and G do not need no tweaks except in section of soft and hard attack.

Even if SA and HA are the same combination of initiative, air attack and air defense would make the difference.

I would give it SA 6 and HA 7 or 8.

I am thinking about those changes:
- set Ground Defense 11->14 (More than wooden Mosquito)
- set SA to 5 (1 less than Ju 87B; diving accuracy >> all); ( on a related note: Ju 87D has too low SA );
- set HA to 6 (should have far less HA than Ju 87 G, whose role was killing tanks)
- set AA to 14 (18 is too much for heavy fighter/bomber); 14 is the same AA as Me 109 G / K;
- maybe increase Air Defense by 2 points to 24; Нас не догонят

And we have Hitler's wet dream working .

[Steelslayer]

On another note:

Is there any thoughts on the attack values of pionere units against fortresses? In some cases, are they a little low? I understand that fortresses are tough nuts to crack, but it seems like they resist attack too strongly against these specialized units, and inflict too costly casualties.

Also, do or could fallschrim units have an increased attack value on fortress as well? Consider the effectiveness of the German attack on the fortress system of Eban Eamal (sp?) in belgium

Just some things to consider

[Jmcmenamin]

On another note:

Is there any thoughts on the attack values of pionere units against fortresses? In some cases, are they a little low? I understand that fortresses are tough nuts to crack, but it seems like they resist attack too strongly against these specialized units, and inflict too costly casualties.

Also, do or could fallschrim units have an increased attack value on fortress as well? Consider the effectiveness of the German attack on the fortress system of Eban Eamal (sp?) in belgium

Just some things to consider

These are good points, I have thought the same.

[Steakenglisch]

@Steakenglisch

F-3 and F-8 versions have different operational range where F-8 has bigger one but I used F-3 for reference, didn't look for G model but from gameplay point of view it is not good to have such small fuel value so late unless you want to penalize unit for some reason so will increase fuel for both of those units and was thinking to rearrange date of appearances for better upgrade path so G model will be available before Overlord.

Ahhhh that sounds very good! With more fuel i will buy them

[Steakenglisch]

On another note:

Is there any thoughts on the attack values of pionere units against fortresses? In some cases, are they a little low? I understand that fortresses are tough nuts to crack, but it seems like they resist attack too strongly against these specialized units, and inflict too costly casualties.

Also, do or could fallschrim units have an increased attack value on fortress as well? Consider the effectiveness of the German attack on the fortress system of Eban Eamal (sp?) in belgium

Just some things to consider

These are good points, I have thought the same.

Yep, and there should be a Pionier43 unit with higher stats cause the Kampfpioniere were equipped with good stuff to fullfill their tasks and when even a light infantry43 is better than the Pioniere it makes no sense ... the last campaign i ve played completly without them ...

[skarczew]

Yep, and there should be a Pionier43 unit with higher stats cause the Kampfpioniere were equipped with good stuff to fullfill their tasks and when even a light infantry43 is better than the Pioniere it makes no sense ... the last campaign i ve played completly without them ...

This is legacy from PG, where engineers / pioniere were the ultimate infantry.
Too bad, in 1943 they were no longer that much better than normal infantry.

I agree that small buff there would be nice.

[Obsolete]

On the purchase menu, there maybe should be some sort of extra icon to indicate that an asset is SWITCHABLE?