Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[PeteMitchell]

I remember a map for the Italian-Ethiopian War in Panzer General... long time ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_It ... iopian_War

[uzbek2012]

I remember a map for the Italian-Ethiopian War in Panzer General... long time ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_It ... iopian_War

Although archers can be added though to the Ethiopians )))
https://mil-history.livejournal.com/934674.html
https://humus.livejournal.com/2498734.html
Probably many of you remember the mod about the Abyssinian-Italian War of 1935 on the Panzer General 2 !?



http://www.gamer.ru/panzer-general-ii/achtung-panzer
http://hartmann.valka.cz/panzergeneral/eindex.htm
https://warexe.ru/panzer-general-istoriya-serii/
http://luis-guzman.com/
http://www.adlerkorps.com/


https://playminigames.ru/game/open-panz ... -general-2


Everyone can choose a war for themselves
http://otvaga2004.ru/voyny/

[McGuba]

I played this Ethiopian campaign on PG2 many years ago but I lost it half way. My units were so weak and the Italians were like some unstoppable universal soldiers, lol. What a change from what we are used to in PG games.

[uzbek2012]

I played this Ethiopian campaign on PG2 many years ago but I lost it half way. My units were so weak and the Italians were like some unstoppable universal soldiers, lol. What a change from what we are used to in PG games.

I don't know I was probably young then and I played for hours so my Orthodox negroes beat the Italians )

[faos333]

Question I got this pop up message, does this mean that oil crisis is over for good?

popup.JPG (41.42 KiB) Viewed 2704 times

[Uhu]

Yes, good work! Airforce xp loss will be cancelled, no more -2 fuell loss/per turn to your ground units, you will got a lot of money soon and if you go back to ports with your capital ships, they will be filled to maximum fuel level.

[guille1434]

About the 1000 actual units for one in-game unit rule, I think it is a good measure to balance the things out... And it is not that I pretent to rienvent the wheel here, as the mod, as we all can read here is one of the most realistic and well balanced in the PzCorps "universe". But anyway here are some thoughts:

In the in-game Library I wrote a section about the unit scale of the mod. Ground units do not represent fixed units like divisions or corps as I am fully aware that these comprised several different weapon types. If it was like there would only be two unit types at this scale: a generic infantry and a tank unit to represent the infantry coprs and armoured divisions. But it would not be too much fun to only move two types of units and it would be very far from the traditional Panzer General spirit in which many unit classes and unit types are present. And if there was only two types of units it would also deprive talented icon makers like you of their favourite hobby of contributing new unit icons, wouldn'it?

So for more detail I suggest checking the unit scale section of the in-game Library. You can also read it without installing the game if you run the "changes.htm" in the "Library" folder. In a nutshelly, tank units represent 200 tanks of the same type, same for other similar units like armoured cars or StuGs or Soviet ISU self propelled guns. Towed AT, AA and artillery units on the other hand represent 1,000 guns, normally the same type but for example the Karl unit represents all the different siege artillery they had.

Of course I know that the units in this mod represent non-existent units for example they never used 1,000 towed AT guns in a mass in real life but somehow it still works. And that's the main thing. As long as the unit scale is consistent and in line with the historical numbers it does not really matter what we call them. 200 Tigers will always be much better than 200 Shermans and most likely also better than 400, but perhaps not so much when they have to face 600 or even more. In the mod it looks like 1 Tiger unit facing 1, 2 or even more Shermans. Also, when in real life the Soviets had like 4,000 field guns in an battle they could overwhelm 1,000 German guns which would be 4 vs. 1 towed artillery units in the mod in a certain area. Luckily it is relatively easy to find out how many of these were produced and used by the participants and in this way it is relatively easy to recreate the historical ratios.

I just could pinpoint the Ju-88 night fighter unit... Aren´t there some N.F. Bf-110 out there?

The Bf 110G is present in the mod. In real life it had both night fighter and daytime bomber destoryer subtypes but for simplicity these are not seen seperately in the mod. Moreso that on some occasions night fighters were used against daytime bombers and of course also because in the game there are no day and night turns. And anyway one turn in the mod represents two weeks of fighting. So when a "night" fighter like a Bf 110G or Ju 88G attacks a British heavy bomber in a turn it represents an air battle at one night (or maybe several nights) during the two week period and if another Bf 110G attacks a US heavy bomber in the same turn it represents another daylight air battle at some point during the two week period of the same turn. I hope it makes sense.

For some specific type units this "fixed number scale" don´t work accurately, some examples: it is not the same, in terms of firepower (and also resources needed to manufacture such heavy guns): one thousand field howitzers than 1000 railroad guns and siege artillery pieces. In their own specialized roles, a relatively low number of very heavy pieces can achieve what it would not be possible with a thousand lighter guns. As an example, I don´t think it would have been possible to cause the same damage to the heavy Soviet fortifications around Sebastopol using a thousand light or heavy field guns/howitzers, that it could be done using the 80 cm Dora and some other various siege guns, which totalled much less than one tousand individual pieces.

Actually it works, and yes, and it is exactly like that in the mod. A 10.5 cm or 15 cm field gun unit (which represents a concentration of 1,000 such field guns) is most likely ineffective against a heavy fortress like Sevastopol or Kronstadt. At best it will only cause a little suppression and it will only reduce the strength of the fortress if it gets a very lucky dice roll, which is uncommon. However, the understrength Karl unit, which represents a few dozen heavy siege guns at best, will destroy one strength point of that heavy fortress in almost every attack. Which does not seem too much but still better than the zero damage caused by the normal field guns. And thus the siege of such a strong fortress will usually last for several turns i.e. several weeks or months as it happened in real life.

Also, if we adhere to this rule, there should be very low limits to the number of other very relevant (but manufactured in relatively very low numbers) German heavy units:

- Tiger I: 1350 built (1 or, if rounding up, 2 units max. allowed)
- Jagdpanther: less than 400 built.
- King Tiger: Aprox. 500 built.
- Panther (all variants): Just 6000 units built...

Yes, there are significant limits for most of these, except for the Panther. The main limit is their price, but the rarest units like the Elefant cannot be purchased at all. Also, only one Tiger unit is added for free late in 1942 and for a while it is not possible to purchase more. Even when it is, it is very expensive, I mean it costs several times more than a StuG or Pz.IV so it does not really worth to purchase it although the possibility is there. In reality there were never really more than 300-350 operational Tiger Is available at any given point in WW2 due to constant losses, but even this peak strength was not maintained for long and the average was only around 200 for the majority of the war. Hence there is only one Tiger I unit in the mod unless the player decides to purchase another one for a very high price.

low fuel availability which cause experience loss for air (and land also?) units

At the higher difficulty versions of the mod ground units lose 2 fuel points in each turn until at least two oilfields are captured and reparied (which again takes time so it is not enough to just capture them). Also the maximum fuel (range) of the bigger warships is severly limited i.e. in practice these can only be used close to their home ports and cannot reach the open seas.

Agian, please, don´t take me as a "party crasher" who came in to try to change everything or reinvent the wheel here, I am just giving some though fodder for the reasons about why not in all cases the "1000 units" rule works so correctly.

No problem at all, I am aware that this system is not perfect but I tried to make the best out of the game engine and to make it consistent.

And best of all, and this is one of the things that make me love so much this game: I can pretend that I am a VERY wealthy general in a high command position and I can arrange a "private purchase" with the Krupp firm and take with me to the front those beautiful 28cm K5(e) guns that I want so much!! I just have to add some characters in the correct cells of the equipment table, and it´s done!

Yes, for sure, if somebody wants to modify certain aspects of the mod for his own use it is of course possible but it may affect the overall balance of the mod. So if you add an extra railway gun unit you should remove 1-2 other normal guns unless your aim is to make the mod a little easier for you.

Well, taking the thread of this idea exchange again, now that I know that for tank units the scale value is one in-game icon represents 200 individual tanks, I agree with you. A variable unit scale makes much more sense that a fixed 1:1000 one. For the rest of the subjects, I also agree with you. Besides, the mod only received very good critics from the vast majority of the players that have tried it. So, the "golden rule" must be observed here: If it is not broken, don´t fix it...

Some other (random) comments and questions:

While looking in the graphic/units folder I saw that you are using an inaccurate icon for the 7,5 cm FK16 nA split trail (twin "legs") carriage, instead of the box trail carriage that the gun had in reality (it looked more or less like the one used by French 155 mm gun)... May be, in a future update, you will want to use more accurate icons for that gun.

Well, I have to go now, later, will ask you some questions... Thnks for all!

[guille1434]

Or, may be a non-crewed icon will be more suitable to the mod style...

[tactical22]

Hi, to all!! After having played this superb mod dozens of times I cannot get enough of it. Does anybody know a game similar to it apart from commander: Europe at war or Strategic Command? Thanks

[Uhu]

Hi, to all!! After having played this superb mod dozens of times I cannot get enough of it. Does anybody know a game similar to it apart from commander: Europe at war or Strategic Command? Thanks

Battlefield Europe Multiplayer.
But really! I was sceptical about it for a very long time, but since I played it, it gave such a new, fresh, even more challenging gameplay, that the single player is not so interesting anymore.

[PeteMitchell]

Hi, to all!! After having played this superb mod dozens of times I cannot get enough of it. Does anybody know a game similar to it apart from commander: Europe at war or Strategic Command? Thanks

Have you played the BE save games as well as BE multiplayer as well?

Worth trying

[Uhu]

Right, the historical saves are also great!!

[guille1434]

... And the continuation about my rumblings over the Battlefield Europe mod:

I have read the Readme file and nearly all of the files present in the Library folder, including the two AARs made by General Werner. In those, Gen. Werner is very emphatic about the importance of achieving a big encirclement of Soviet units in the opening phases of Operation Barbarossa. In fact, he concludes that his defeat in ther first game was a consequence of not being able to achieve the encirclement and surrender of the mentioned units... About this, I want to know if the game gives some messages to the player about this objective and the turn time available to the player to make those Soviet units surrendering.

I like very much the way devised by McGube to circumvent the problem of the organic transport units of "camo" trait units also havinbg that trait (this would be the case of towed AT guns which are given the camo trait). Explained briefly, the camo AT guns (up to 75 mm caliber) are not given organic transport but a switch to a "mounted" state, and only those land vehicles mounted guns units (without the "camo" trait) are given the posibility of being transported by sea and railway transports. Thus, avoiding "stealth" sea and railway transport units. Excellent!

But, a question remains: why not giving such units the possibility to be air transported by glider? Using this system the air transport unit would not have the camo trait either. May be the reason is that it would be some form of "cheating" the AI by way of transporting by air AT units to objective hexes situated deep in its rearguard? Also, by giving to those same AT units a switch to a "leg move" state (someting like an organic transport provided by their own crew members) without the camo trait, said towed AT units could also be made air portable by the standard Ju-52. I think it should be something related to game balance, but I would like to know the reasons for this "non air portable AT guns" game rule.

Just some loose thoughts and questions...

[PeteMitchell]

GeneralWerner has one example where he was very ambitiously considering to encircle all troops between Dnieper and Volga... (or something like this...) I hope you don't mean this one...

However, there are many messages on several historic occasions, e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of ... 80%93Minsk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kiev_(1941)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leningrad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Caucasus

Re gliders, my guess it's a unit scale thing again, i.e. there is only one paratrooper/Fallschirmjäger unit plus the airborne Brandenburger unit. As far as I know: after Crete, Germans didn't use many gliders anymore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... ary_glider

Have you started playing the mod yet?

[McGuba]

While looking in the graphic/units folder I saw that you are using an inaccurate icon for the 7,5 cm FK16 nA split trail (twin "legs") carriage,

That's a misunderstanding, I use the "7.5_cm_FK_16_nA.png" icon for the 10.5cm leFH18, you can check it in the pzequipment file. I was just too lazy to fix it and it does not affect the gameplay anyway, it is just a filename. To make things even more confusing, I use the "Axis_French_75_ATY.png" file for the 7,5 cm FK16 nA, again purely out of my lazyness to sort out the file names of the mod. There is always something more important to add or fix!

But I guess it is also a good way to confuse the Intelligence Services of the Allied powers.

7.5_cm_FK_16_nA.png (20.95 KiB) Viewed 2561 times

Axis_French_75_ATY.png (31.99 KiB) Viewed 2561 times

I want to know if the game gives some messages to the player about this objective and the turn time available to the player to make those Soviet units surrendering.

Yes of course the instructions are clearly given and there are also hints about the deadline if I remember well. While you are waiting to be able to install and try this mod, you might want to start watching the excellent ongoing playthrough of our friend goose_2 on youtube, and then you can see and read all these:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... aBN4NIAxMJ

a question remains: why not giving such units the possibility to be air transported by glider?

Currently there are no gliders in the mod and only infantry can be transported by air transports. Partly because of scenario balance (to avoid making it too easy to "teleport" some heavy equipment behind the backs of the AI with which it may not be able to deal with), and partly because of historical accuracy (the Axis did not really have the capacity to transport too many heavy equipment - they even had problems transporting enough supplies and soldiers to Tunisia when the sea route was closed down by the Allies).

I know that they used the Me 323 Gigant and other large planes to carry some trucks, light guns and the like, but as far as I know only a limited amount. I doubt that they were able to transport hundreds of guns, let alone light tanks in this way. And that would be the units scale of this mod and not just a few dozen or so. As far as I am aware all the heavy equipment was transported by ships to North Africa and in Europe they used trains for that.

towed AT units could also be made air portable by the standard Ju-52

With all fairness, I do not think that the Ju 52 could transport towed AT guns. It only had small side doors fit for soldiers and not for guns.

Also, by giving to those same AT units a switch to a "leg move" state

I would not like to give another mode to AT units, currently they have two modes: land transport and towed AT. It looks like the AI is not very good with swicthing multipurpose units, it has enough problems with units with two modes, I would not want to exacerbate it by adding towed AT units another mode. A possible solution might be to only add three modes to the Axis units, but then it would make the multiplayer games unbalanced when only the Axis side would have this advantage but the Allied side would not. Also I would like to keep the door open for a possible Allied version of the scenario which may or may not will be made in the distant future. (Or perhaps long time ago, in a galaxy far far away )

[uzbek2012]

https://www.diary.ru/~15061981/p180433516.htm?oam
https://fishki.net/3088743-boevye-samol ... 4025063520
Motorcycles will be able to transport already well )
http://alternathistory.com/odnomotornyj ... 2-chast-1/


http://www.airwar.ru/history/av2ww/sovi ... _sssr.html


https://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft20218-1.htm


https://www.flying-tigers.co.uk/2016/th ... bre-wings/

[faos333]

.........

nice images

[uzbek2012]

.........

nice images

What to do without real photos will not even be considered , and then there is a chance to see something new in mods )

[faos333]

.........

nice images

What to do without real photos will not even be considered , and then there is a chance to see something new in mods )

totally agree

[faos333]

Question, I am in turn 85 and I have some troops stationed in Tobruk, the AI is not attacking west do you think is to move them to Europe?

Also, lately there is no partisan activity in the Pripet Marsches, do they stop appearing in 1945? Should I move elsewhere guarding units?