McGuba wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:52 pm
guille1434 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:37 pm
About the 1000 actual units for one in-game unit rule, I think it is a good measure to balance the things out... And it is not that I pretent to rienvent the wheel here, as the mod, as we all can read here is one of the most realistic and well balanced in the PzCorps "universe". But anyway here are some thoughts:
In the in-game Library I wrote a section about the unit scale of the mod. Ground units do not represent fixed units like divisions or corps as I am fully aware that these comprised several different weapon types. If it was like there would only be two unit types at this scale: a generic infantry and a tank unit to represent the infantry coprs and armoured divisions. But it would not be too much fun to only move two types of units and it would be very far from the traditional Panzer General spirit in which many unit classes and unit types are present. And if there was only two types of units it would also deprive talented icon makers like you of their favourite hobby of contributing new unit icons, wouldn'it?
So for more detail I suggest checking the unit scale section of the in-game Library. You can also read it without installing the game if you run the "changes.htm" in the "Library" folder. In a nutshelly, tank units represent 200 tanks of the same type, same for other similar units like armoured cars or StuGs or Soviet ISU self propelled guns. Towed AT, AA and artillery units on the other hand represent 1,000 guns, normally the same type but for example the Karl unit represents all the different siege artillery they had.
Of course I know that the units in this mod represent non-existent units for example they never used 1,000 towed AT guns in a mass in real life but somehow it still works. And that's the main thing. As long as the unit scale is consistent and in line with the historical numbers it does not really matter what we call them. 200 Tigers will always be much better than 200 Shermans and most likely also better than 400, but perhaps not so much when they have to face 600 or even more. In the mod it looks like 1 Tiger unit facing 1, 2 or even more Shermans. Also, when in real life the Soviets had like 4,000 field guns in an battle they could overwhelm 1,000 German guns which would be 4 vs. 1 towed artillery units in the mod in a certain area. Luckily it is relatively easy to find out how many of these were produced and used by the participants and in this way it is relatively easy to recreate the historical ratios.
guille1434 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:37 pm
I just could pinpoint the Ju-88 night fighter unit... Aren´t there some N.F. Bf-110 out there?
The Bf 110G is present in the mod. In real life it had both night fighter and daytime bomber destoryer subtypes but for simplicity these are not seen seperately in the mod. Moreso that on some occasions night fighters were used against daytime bombers and of course also because in the game there are no day and night turns. And anyway one turn in the mod represents two weeks of fighting. So when a "night" fighter like a Bf 110G or Ju 88G attacks a British heavy bomber in a turn it represents an air battle at one night (or maybe several nights) during the two week period and if another Bf 110G attacks a US heavy bomber in the same turn it represents another daylight air battle at some point during the two week period of the same turn. I hope it makes sense.
For some specific type units this "fixed number scale" don´t work accurately, some examples: it is not the same, in terms of firepower (and also resources needed to manufacture such heavy guns): one thousand field howitzers than 1000 railroad guns and siege artillery pieces. In their own specialized roles, a relatively low number of very heavy pieces can achieve what it would not be possible with a thousand lighter guns. As an example, I don´t think it would have been possible to cause the same damage to the heavy Soviet fortifications around Sebastopol using a thousand light or heavy field guns/howitzers, that it could be done using the 80 cm Dora and some other various siege guns, which totalled much less than one tousand individual pieces.
Actually it works, and yes, and it is exactly like that in the mod. A 10.5 cm or 15 cm field gun unit (which represents a concentration of 1,000 such field guns) is most likely ineffective against a heavy fortress like Sevastopol or Kronstadt. At best it will only cause a little suppression and it will only reduce the strength of the fortress if it gets a very lucky dice roll, which is uncommon. However, the understrength Karl unit, which represents a few dozen heavy siege guns at best, will destroy one strength point of that heavy fortress in almost every attack. Which does not seem too much but still better than the zero damage caused by the normal field guns. And thus the siege of such a strong fortress will usually last for several turns i.e. several weeks or months as it happened in real life.
Also, if we adhere to this rule, there should be very low limits to the number of other very relevant (but manufactured in relatively very low numbers) German heavy units:
- Tiger I: 1350 built (1 or, if rounding up, 2 units max. allowed)
- Jagdpanther: less than 400 built.
- King Tiger: Aprox. 500 built.
- Panther (all variants): Just 6000 units built...
Yes, there are significant limits for most of these, except for the Panther. The main limit is their price, but the rarest units like the Elefant cannot be purchased at all. Also, only one Tiger unit is added for free late in 1942 and for a while it is not possible to purchase more. Even when it is, it is very expensive, I mean it costs several times more than a StuG or Pz.IV so it does not really worth to purchase it although the possibility is there. In reality there were never really more than 300-350 operational Tiger Is available at any given point in WW2 due to constant losses, but even this peak strength was not maintained for long and the average was only around 200 for the majority of the war. Hence there is only one Tiger I unit in the mod unless the player decides to purchase another one for a very high price.
low fuel availability which cause experience loss for air (and land also?) units
At the higher difficulty versions of the mod ground units lose 2 fuel points in each turn until at least two oilfields are captured and reparied (which again takes time so it is not enough to just capture them). Also the maximum fuel (range) of the bigger warships is severly limited i.e. in practice these can only be used close to their home ports and cannot reach the open seas.
Agian, please, don´t take me as a "party crasher" who came in to try to change everything or reinvent the wheel here, I am just giving some though fodder for the reasons about why not in all cases the "1000 units" rule works so correctly.
No problem at all, I am aware that this system is not perfect but I tried to make the best out of the game engine and to make it consistent.
And best of all, and this is one of the things that make me love so much this game: I can pretend that I am a VERY wealthy general in a high command position and I can arrange a "private purchase" with the Krupp firm and take with me to the front those beautiful 28cm K5(e) guns that I want so much!!
I just have to add some characters in the correct cells of the equipment table, and it´s done!
Yes, for sure, if somebody wants to modify certain aspects of the mod for his own use it is of course possible but it may affect the overall balance of the mod. So if you add an extra railway gun unit you should remove 1-2 other normal guns unless your aim is to make the mod a little easier for you.
Does anybody know a game similar to it apart from commander: Europe at war or Strategic Command? Thanks
