Classical Greek - Sparta

[ravenflight]

Don't pay too much attention to the experts, play your army how you want to and don't worry about optimising it to the nth degree. As time goes by you'll no doubt come up with things you want to change about it...or maybe you'll find like me you just like changing the composition of your army from game to game for the sake of variety.

He asked a question. He got answers. It's a bit silly to suggest not paying attention to suggestions in a forum of this type.

Of course, if you WANT a forum where the only posts are one regular giving shit to another regular about how much they drink in between games, I guess that would be an option.

[philqw78]

Of course, if you WANT a forum where the only posts are one regular giving shit to another regular about how much they drink in between games, I guess that would be an option.

Of course that happens here as well. They're not the only posts unfortunately

[DasSheep]

I do like the way my Cv look but based off opinions I received here I think I will mostly be going for Hoplites supported by more...hoplites. Large numbers of Sup Drilled Armored HF just seems quite strong. I guess from a tactical stand point putting as many Hoplites as I can on the field with a few cheap skirmishers to disrupt my enemies and fill up the board is a pretty sound choice.

Edit: This is what I am thinking of at 900 pts:

FC-50 (CiC)

FC-50
TC-35

Spartan Hoplites -HF Armoured Superior Drilled Offensive spearmen - 8 Bases - 104pts
Spartan Hoplites -HF Armoured Superior Drilled Offensive spearmen - 8 Bases - 104pts
Spartan Hoplites -HF Armoured Superior Drilled Offensive spearmen - 8 Bases - 104pts
Spartan Hoplites -HF Armoured Superior Drilled Offensive spearmen - 8 Bases - 104pts

Spartan Perioikio -HF Armoured Average Drilled Offensive spearmen - 8 Bases - 80pts
Spartan Perioikio -HF Armoured Average Drilled Offensive spearmen - 8 Bases - 80pts
Spartan Perioikio -HF Armoured Average Drilled Offensive spearmen - 8 Bases - 80pts

Javilenmen (Helots!) -LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Javelins/Light spear - 6 Bases - 12 Points
Javilenmen (Helots!) -LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Javelins/Light spear - 6 Bases - 12 Points
Javilenmen (Helots!) -LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Javelins/Light spear - 6 Bases - 12 Points

Archers -LF Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - 8 Bases - 40 Points
Slingers -LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Sling - 8 Bases - 32 Points

Total: 899pts.

Thoughts: I have 7 big BG's of dead hard hoplites supported by a decent number of skirmishers to protect my camp and screen my flanks. The archers and slingers should be able to harrash the poorly protected LH and Cv I will likely face in this time period. I think. I considered dropping the bows and slings as well as chancing the Sub Commander FC to a TC and picking up 1 more BG of Perioikio, but it seems like I would be lacking any kind of real ranged troops and not be able to deal with LH at all if that was the Case. My other idea was to maybe put some normal undrilled protected hoplites out there, they are much cheaper, but it seems like keeping the bulk of my force armored will make it a very tough nut for most period forces to crack. Another advantage is not having to paint nearly as many hoplites! Thoughts on this new list?

Off note: When I type CiC it makes me think of CiCi's pizza which kinda makes me want to go get some Pizza.

[ShrubMiK]

He asked a question. He got answers. It's a bit silly to suggest not paying attention to suggestions in a forum of this type.

If you care to suggest a permissable wording for "here's an alternative approach you might like to consider" that won't offend your sensitivities I'm all ears Indeed he got various answers, one of them being mine.

[berthier]

I'm not sure you need an FC as a sub. I would think you are not going to be doing much in the way of flank marching with this list.

The extra 15 points might be best spent on another skirmisher (if possible, don't have the list in front of me) or adding bulk to the 3 javelin men you already have. Poors in 8s have more staying power.

Just my thoughts.

And again feel free to play it as you want. It is your army after all.

[DasSheep]

Unfortunately I can only have 18 total skirmishers as the Spartans without taking allies, which is why I went for three groups of six, other wise I would have taken quite a bit more!

[berthier]

If you dropped the slingers and the archers to 6 each, that combined with the 15 from demoting the sub FC and the 1 point left over from the 900 would give you 34 points.

If you had 35, I would suggest another TC.

For 30 points you could bring another 6 stands of archers giving you the 12 max archers. You have 4 points left over but you have another BG of skirmishers to give you some long range shooting.

[zvengrosbaf]

According to FOG 1.17 errata, you may only have 8 LF poor Jav/light spear. With 6 LF bow and 6 slingers it make sense.
Without any allies, for 800 pts that makes :
1 IC, 2 TC 150
1* 8 hoplites heavy foot, armoured, superior, drilled, offensive spearmen 104
4 * 6 hoplites heavy foot, armoured,superior,drilled,offensive spearmen 312
2 * 6 hoplites periokoi,armoured, average,drilled, offensive spearmen 120
1 * 8 thraces medium foot, light spear, swordsmen 48
1 * 6 LF javelin,light spear poor 12
1 * 6 LF average bow 30
1 * 6 LF average sling 24

[grahambriggs]

According to FOG 1.17 errata, you may only have 8 LF poor Jav/light spear. With 6 LF bow and 6 slingers it make sense.
Without any allies, for 800 pts that makes :
1 IC, 2 TC 150
1* 8 hoplites heavy foot, armoured, superior, drilled, offensive spearmen 104
4 * 6 hoplites heavy foot, armoured,superior,drilled,offensive spearmen 312
2 * 6 hoplites periokoi,armoured, average,drilled, offensive spearmen 120
1 * 8 thraces medium foot, light spear, swordsmen 48
1 * 6 LF javelin,light spear poor 12
1 * 6 LF average bow 30
1 * 6 LF average sling 24

That erratum is only for classical Greek allies

[Polkovnik]

If you had 35, I would suggest another TC.

I don't have the lists in front of me but I'm guessing a fourth general would have to be an ally. Which would only be 30 points, but might mean a bit of re-jigging of the rest of the army.

[Polkovnik]

Also I wouldn't rule out a BG of 4 cavalry. In conjunction with LF they can be very effective at chasing off enemy LH, or protecting a flank of the spear.
Also, you will need to protect your flanks, and that often means using terrain, but you don't have any terrain troops. Can't you have a BG of Thracians or similar ?

[DasSheep]

I thought about 1 BG of MF, but my reasoning on not getting them was that most/all period armies I face have better medium foot then I do, so they would most likely be able to kill my Thracians in rough terrain.

My plan for dealing with MF in rough terrain is one of two things:
1) Ignore them.
2) If I can not ignore them, then park some hoplites outside of the medium terrain, and give them a gift of a few inches of spartan steel followed by about six feet of fine spartan timber when they come out.


I was originally planning on taking Calvary but I elected to go with more Hoplites. I do not want to loose my only range troops to get the Cav either. I have not played yet as i am still painting my army (started the hoplites after I had painted all the support stuff, so I have lots of Petlasts, MF and Cv painted that I will not use, along with my LF and ranged fellows that I will use of course, but only 1 BG of Hoplites painted with two more WIP, and the rest still in their baggies) Perhaps after I play a few games I will drop some men with pointy sticks to get some men with pointy sticks on horses to add that element to my army.

[grahambriggs]

Also I wouldn't rule out a BG of 4 cavalry. In conjunction with LF they can be very effective at chasing off enemy LH, or protecting a flank of the spear.
Also, you will need to protect your flanks, and that often means using terrain, but you don't have any terrain troops. Can't you have a BG of Thracians or similar ?

If you take the cavalry as protected they cost the same per base as protected hoplites. You could take 4 for cheap rear support.

The better MF options are, if memory serves, later than the armoured hoplites. And a single BG of Thracians seems a bit of a victim to me.

[zvengrosbaf]

According to FOG 1.17 errata, you may only have 8 LF poor Jav/light spear. With 6 LF bow and 6 slingers it make sense.
Without any allies, for 800 pts that makes :
1 IC, 2 TC 150
1* 8 hoplites heavy foot, armoured, superior, drilled, offensive spearmen 104
4 * 6 hoplites heavy foot, armoured,superior,drilled,offensive spearmen 312
2 * 6 hoplites periokoi,armoured, average,drilled, offensive spearmen 120
1 * 8 thraces medium foot, light spear, swordsmen 48
1 * 6 LF javelin,light spear poor 12
1 * 6 LF average bow 30
1 * 6 LF average sling 24

That erratum is only for classical Greek allies

You are absolutly right !
That means :
1 IC + 2 TC
1 * 8 hoplites sup arm
4 * 6 hoplites sup arm
2 * 6 hoplites av
3 * 6 peltasts LF jav/ls poor
1 * 6 LF bow av
1 * 8 MF undrilled av LS/Sw
Total : 12 BGs
for the MF, the mission is: never go in open but deny the ennemy the opportunity to use cover to outflank hoplites