Baltic States

Hammer4000 · Post by **Hammer4000** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:46 pm

Well for gameplay reasons i can see Lithuania to be the only nation where Germany may get the lesser of two evils. For invasion-The others are,a Definite Risk.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:15 pm

I don't know but the more I think about this the more I'm waffling on what we should do. To me the simplest solution and the one that would have the least impact on current game flow and balance would be that for the axis player to declare war on the Baltic States that the Soviet Union would immediately enter the war on the allied side.

Now, to me the question is do we need to (or want to) do something more sophisticated? If we do, then in effect we're adding more sophistication to the geopolitical changes we've already made (i.e., Balkans, French Armistice, Spain, Turkey, Iraq/Persia).

If we decide to do something more sophisticated then what is it that we want to achieve? To tell you the truth I'm at the moment neutral on want to do; but I wanted to make this post so that we can focus and discuss this in game terms.

Hammer4000 · Post by **Hammer4000** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:42 pm

I don't know but the more I think about this the more I'm waffling on what we should do

I can only see two things to this. One is what Stauffenberg said, its seems most logical in this case.

n order to be able to DoW each of the Baltic states we need to add a capital to each of Tallinn, Riga and Kaunas and also make flag images for these countries. Then they can be DoW'able. Shall I do that?

Since the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was the reason Germany invaded Poland I think we just can't let Germany conquer the Baltic States without consequences. The real Germans wanted to buy time in the east so they could knock out France and maybe get a peace treaty with UK. Breaking the newly signed agreement just to capture a Baltic country seems like a very unlikely possibility for Germany.

I think we have 2 options in such a situation. Germany will have to DoW each country separately. DoW'ing the first of these 3 will make Russia mobilizing. This means USSR will get about 30 higher war effort.

Each DoW will have a 25% increased chance for Russia joining the Allies. So first DoW has a 25% chance. Second a 50% chance and third a 75% chance.

This means the Germans will make a big risk if they DoW any of the Baltic states. They need to hurry because the Russians will annex these countries in the Spring of 1940. So you might end up having Russia on the Allies side without any surprise efficiency loss.

So I don't think we will often see Germans DoW'ing any of the Baltic states.

the 2nd idea is i guess alittle more complicated, have the pact set up like an event, so when the time comes you can have the pact honored or dishonored, kinda like the event for the French surrender.But i dont know how hard it was for you guys to set up such a thing for that event. SO i would keep it simple with step1 above.

dagtwo · Post by **dagtwo** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:58 pm

rkr1958 wrote: Now, to me the question is do we need to (or want to) do something more sophisticated?

As a rank beginner I'm worried about a death by a thousand cuts: gradually making the game so sophisticated that it's "fun" value is diminished for many players. Would too many options for the simpler players decrease the player pool in the long run?

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:32 pm

One simple solution is what Ronnie suggests, i. e. let the Germans be able to DoW the Baltic States and thus let the Russians immediately join the Allies because the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was broken. The Russians would see this as a DoW upon USSR. Remember that USSR joining the Allies won't give them a lot of production. They start at war effort 3 and will increase to about 30. So it will take a long time until the Russians can do anything to stop the Germans. They haven't even collected a lot of PP's to build a defense line.