Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

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the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

That wiki page on Military Organisation was actually what I'd just been reading that lead to the post! I like that page very much... 8)

Earlier in the thread I had written that the unit that I thought best represented a game unit at the scale I was using was the Gruppe but after reading that page (and a bit of other researching) I have concluded that the Staffel is the more appropriate formation. According to the page, the battalion has a NATO symbol of 'II' for army structure hierarchy, which is the same as that for squadron in the air force.

Thanks for the link to the symbol page. I'll see if I can use it to decipher some of the archive tables, like reading hieroglyphs. That 1300 page document you linked to details quite a few interesting formations.

Incidentally, and on a side note, do you have any rough idea of the cost comparison for producing a tank against an aircraft during the Second World War? I have read elsewhere on the internet that a Tiger tank cost about $100,000 (250,000 RM) in 2WW, which would apparently be
$1,250,000 today. (2WW = Second World War - never much cared for "World War 2"... :x ).
ThvN
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by ThvN »

the_iron_duke wrote:That 1300 page document you linked to details quite a few interesting formations.
You're welcome, I'm glad you like it. It's a bit 'too much info' for me, although I have the added distraction of being able to read most of the German... As you see, there are differences in the theoritical standards and the composition of actual divisions. Some divisions were described in seperate standards ('Sondergliederung' =special hierarchy), like the 21st you linked.

Most standardized formations were allowed 'substitute' equipment, the ideal was laid down in the K.St.N. numbered official documents (KSTN xxxx) and the alternate equivalents of the theoretical ideal were often detailed as well, with several options for the unit too chose from based on their current inventory. These are often shown as a description, followed by 'bzw.' which means beziehungsweise (=respectively).
Incidentally, and on a side note, do you have any rough idea of the cost comparison for producing a tank against an aircraft during the Second World War? I have read elsewhere on the internet that a Tiger tank cost about $100,000 (250,000 RM) in 2WW, which would apparently be
$1,250,000 today. (2WW = Second World War - never much cared for "World War 2"... :x ).
Second World War... In my native language (Dutch), it's called 'Tweede Wereldoorlog', which literally translates to 'Second Worldwar'.

Anyway: cost. This depends on a lot of factors, especially with airplanes as they come in all shapes and sizes. Tanks are in a more narrow price range of course. But I'll show just you some numbers I quickly dug out of my bookmarks, I've been using these to mod prestige costs:

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104/cost.htm US tanks
http://www.usaaf.net/digest/t82.htm US airplanes (note the costs of the fighters, esp. the P-38, P-47 and P-51. Now you know why they went with the P-51 after the war)
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_bombers/b17_29.html (for a breakdown of the total cost of a B-17, fun info, check the propeller price)

I also have some rough costs for German stuff, but considering the inflation numbers and the nature of pricing equipment, these are less comparable.
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

I think it would be possible to create a whole new game based around the division - it's such an interesting and self-contained tactical tool-kit:

Image

Thanks for the equipment cost links.

Although my initial Germany vs USSR October 1943 scenario has been fun, I kind of feel it was my learning/practise scenario in terms of the map itself.

So I might make another Germany vs USSR map and push forward the scenario to around the time of Bagration (mid '44) as I'd like to include some of the tasty Soviet tanks like the T-34/85 and IS-2. I might try and make a game with two Panzer Divisions and a Panzergrenadier Division versus two Soviet Guards Mechanized Corps and a Soviet Guards Tank Corps.

Here's the Soviet force I've come up with:

Guards Tank Corps

6 x T-34-85 tanks
2 x Guards 43 infantry (w/ Truck) [Perhaps could make them mechanized with M3 half-track]

2 x SU-76 self-propelled artillery
1 x SU-122 self-propelled artillery

1 x BA-64 recon
1 x SU-85 self-propelled anti-tank
1 x M16 MGMC self-propelled anti-air
1 x Soviet Eng 43 engineers (w/ Truck)

Guards Mechanized Corps

2 x T-34-85 tanks
6 x Guards 43 infantry (w/ Truck)

2 x SU-76 self-propelled artillery
1 x SU-122 self-propelled artillery

1 x BA-64 recon
1 x SU-85 self-propelled anti-tank
1 x 37mm M1939 (w/ Truck) towed anti-air
1 x Soviet Eng 43 engineers (w/ Truck)

I've been looking through quite a few archived orders of battle and the divisional artillery in Soviet Tank and Mechanized Corps all seems to be SU regiments (up to three) which means I think they're all using self-propelled artillery. The SU-76 was the second most produced Soviet vehicle of the war after the T-34 and it's a cheap SP artillery unit.

Again, I've reduced the number of battalions in the Soviet armoured and infantry brigades by a factor of 3 to 2 to fit them into the game structure as I think the equivalent formations were smaller in size than their counterparts.

Attached units would include:

1 x IS-2 heavy tank

1 x SU-152 or ISU-122 self-propelled anti-tank [haven't decided which is more appropriate yet]

1 x ISU-152 self-propelled artillery

2 x BM-13 or BM-31 Katyusha self-propelled artillery [haven't decided which is more appropriate yet]

One or two towed artillery brigades each containing,

1 x 122mm M1938 (w/ truck) towed artillery
1 x 152mm M1938 (w/ truck) towed artillery

1 or 2 x 85mm M1939 (w/ truck) towed anti-aircraft

1 x Soviet Cavalry
1 x Soviet BridgEng (w/ truck) bridge engineer
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

Actually, my plan for mixing panzer, panzergrenadier, tank and mechanized corps has produced a rather imbalanced pair of armies so I will be going for three Panzer Corps against three Soviet Mechanized Corps, as before. I think the Soviets will lose their Guards status and use Regular Soviet infantry as they outnumber the German infantry by 23 to 17 units. The Germans will have, among other attached units, a Tiger I and a Jagdpanther. The Soviet attached units will include independent heavy IS-2 tank, ISU-122 tank destroyer and ISU-152 assault gun units, along with a small air advantage.
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

I'm looking for an experienced player to play my The Bulldog and The Eagle I, Great Britain vs Germany mid '44 scenario, as the Germans. Private Message me if you're interested. Quick players preferred.
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

[Post rendered obsolete by the revised army lists that follow]
Last edited by the_iron_duke on Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

Here is the map for the divisional The Bulldog and The Eagle II. British will deploy top-left, Germans bottom-right.

Image
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

I found the mother lode for orders of battle and tables of organisation and equipment - a 335 page index of almost 8,000 orders of battle from 1600 to 1945. It includes several documents I have utilised in this thread but they are searchable from one place rather than having to be located through google:

http://www.fireandfury.com/orbats/Nafzi ... ng_aid.pdf

Here are some useful pages for the Soviet Mechanized Corps (and other formations) in 1944:

Organization of Russian Mechanized Corps, Summer 1944:

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/CGSC/CARL/n ... 44RXAI.pdf

Organization of Russian Mechanized Rifle Brigade, Summer 1944:

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/CGSC/CARL/n ... 44RXAH.pdf

Organization of Russian Mechanized Brigade, Summer 1944:

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/CGSC/CARL/n ... 44RXAJ.pdf

Tank Inventories And Hull Numbers Various Soviet Armored Corps, Late 1944-Early 1945:

http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/945RAAE.pdf

Soviet Tank Formations (Units and Equipment) from German Intelligence, 1942-1944:

http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/942RAAB.PDF

Soviet Armies Belorussian Offensive, 23 June 1944:

http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/944RFAF.PDF

Organization of Russian Armored, Mechanized, and Cavalry Forces, 30 June 1944:

http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/944RFAA.pdf

Organization of Russian Armored Corps, Brigades, Regiments, Break Through Regiments and independent Battalions, Summer 1944:

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/CGSC/CARL/n ... 44RXAL.pdf

Composition of a mechanised corps (1944) from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_mechanized_corps
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

Using the new additional source material, I have modelled a revised Soviet Mechanized Corps for the mid '44 The Eagle and The Bear I scenario.

For the '44 Mechanized Corps, the unit sizes for infantry, artillery and other units appear to be comparable to their German and Soviet equivalents, except for tanks. While the German armoured battalions had around 80 tanks and British armoured regiments 60-80 tanks, the Soviet armoured battalions (in the Armoured Brigade of the Mechanized Corps, at least) have only 20 tanks. Also, they had tank complements of 40 tanks within each of the three infantry brigades.

So, I have had to do a bit of shoehorning with the tanks. The overall numbers of tanks in the Mechanized Corps were 123 T-34/85 tanks, all together in the three Mechanized Brigades, and another 65 T-34/85 tanks in the Armoured Brigade. I have gone for three T-34/85 tank units for the game. The Mechanized Corps often had extra organic Armoured Brigades with them, which would give them extra tanks. Having three Soviet tank units also retains the three-brigade structure of the Armoured Brigade (and for the purposes of the game's order of battle, the Soviet tanks will all be considered part of the Armoured Brigade). It also gives both sides the same number of non-attached tank units.

Other units have been omitted altogether because they are not represented in the game (e.g. mortar battalions). The towed anti-tank battalion described in the Organization of Russian Mechanized Corps, Summer 1944 document has been ommitted as the contained guns, 45mm or 57 mm AT guns, are so weak they would be virtually useless in the game against German armour. The motorcycle battalion has been represented by a Soviet cavalry unit. The motorised Machine Pistol Battalion from the Armoured Brigade has been ommitted as there's no appropriate unit (the 1939 Soviet MG unit is weaker than the 43 Regular infantry and is only really useful in a defensive role in close terrain and so is not applicable for this unit). The towed artillery regiment in the Organization of Russian Mechanized Corps, Summer 1944 document has been replaced with a third SU unit, as commonly appears in the other orders of battle documents.

Because of the increased size of the revised Soviet Mechanized Corps, the game will feature three Panzer Divisions against two Soviet Mechanized Corps.

So here is the revised Soviet Mechanized Corps:

Image

Image

3 Mechanized (sic) Brigades each containing:

3 x Soviet Regular 43 infantry (w/ Truck)
1 x 76.2mm M1942 (w/ Truck) towed artillery

Armoured Brigade:

3 x T-34-85 tanks

Other units:

1 x SU-85 self-propelled anti-tank
1 x SU-152 self-propelled artillery
1 x SU-76 self-propelled artillery

1 x 37mm M1939 (w/ Truck) towed anti-air

1 x BM-13 Katyusha rocket-launchers

1 x BA-64 recon

1 x Soviet 43 Engineers (w/ Truck)

1 x Soviet Cavalry

Since there are only two Soviet Mechanized Corps to three Panzer Corps, the Germans will have three decent recons and the Soviets, two weak recons and two cavalry units with three-hex vision.
Last edited by the_iron_duke on Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

Here are the armies for the new The Eagle and the Bear I (mid '44). The Soviets have more points spent on air power, while the Germans have more anti-air to compensate. It is hard getting a good German-Soviet air balance as the German tactical bombers double as good fighters, while those of the Soviets are unable to attack. Hopefully, I've got the right balance. Air against air the Soviets have a slight advantage but the German anti-air strength will balance this.

SOVIET FORCES

Image

Image

Two Mechanized Corps each containing:

9 x Regular 43 infantry (w/ Truck)
3 x 76.2mm M1942 (w/ Truck) towed artillery

3 x T-34-85 tanks

1 x SU-85 self-propelled anti-tank
1 x SU-152 self-propelled artillery
1 x SU-76 self-propelled artillery

1 x BM-13 Katyusha self-propelled rocket launchers
1 x BA-64 recon
1 x 37mm M1939 (w/ Truck) towed anti-air
1 x Soviet Eng 43 engineers (w/ Truck)
1 x Soviet cavalry

Attached units:

1 x IS-2 heavy tank

1 x ISU-122 self-propelled anti-tank

2 x 152mm M1938 (w/ Truck) towed artillery
2 x 122mm M1938 (w/ Truck) towed artillery

1 x 85mm M1939 (w/ Truck) towed anti-aircraft

1 x Soviet BridgEng (w/ Truck) bridge engineer

Aircraft:

2 x Yakovlev Yak-3 fighters
2 x Yakovlev Yak-9D fighters

2 x Il-2 Shturmovik tactical bombers
1 x Petlyakov Pe-2 tactical bomber

2 x Ilyushin Il-4 strategic bombers

GERMAN FORCES

Image

Image

Three Panzer Divisions each containing:

1 x Panther G tank
1 x Panzer IVJ tank

1 x 43 Grenadier (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
3 x 43 Wehrmacht Inf (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

1 x Wespe self-propelled artillery
1 x 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
1 x 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

1 x SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
1 x StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
1 x 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
1 x Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineers

Attached units:

1 x Tiger I heavy tank

1 x Jagdpanther self-propelled anti-tank

1 x Panzerwerfer 42 self-propelled rocket-launcher

2 x 21 cm Mrs 18 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy artillery

2 x 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy anti-air

1 x Bruckenpioniere (w/ Opel Blitz truck) bridge engineer

Aircraft:

1 x Focke-Wulf Fw 190A fighter
1 x Messerschmitt Bf 109G fighter

1 x Messerschmitt 410A tactical bomber
1 x Focke-Wulf Fw 190F tactical bomber

1 x Junkers Ju 88A strategic bomber
1 x Heinkel He 111H2 strategic bomber
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

I have been comparing personnel strengths between a Soviet Mechanized Corps and a Panzer Division and they demonstrate the difficulties and compromises that need to be made when transferring real-life military formation organisations into a hex-based computer game.

10,952 = fighting men in a Panzer Division, not counting signals, medical, admin, replacement echelon (from bottom of this page: http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/toe-wo ... -infodata/ )

16,371 = fighting men in a Soviet Mechanized Corps, not counting signals and corps service troops (from counting the numbers on this document: http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/CGSC/CARL/n ... 44RXAI.pdf )

13 = number of game units in a German Panzer Division

23 = number of game units in a Soviet Mechanized Corps

And this is with units left out of the Soviet Corps in the game, like mortar and machine-pistol battalions.

So there is a compromise to be made between retaining formation organisation and retaining formation proportional composition. I have tried to retain formation organisation but the comparative army sizes are a little bit stretched. For the scenario, the Panzer Divisions would be considered a little under-strength or the Mechanized Corps a little over-strength.

The alternative would be to chop units from the Soviet Mechanized Corps: one unit from each of the three infantry brigades, a tank unit, an SU unit and the Soviet cavalry, which would bring down the Soviet Mechanized Corps to 17 units (16 with the Katyushas removed from the Corps and used as attached units), which would be more in line with the actual comparable size between the Mech Corps and the Panzer Division. These cuts would, of course, make a third Mech Corps needed for the game.

Sigh. Another army to make...
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

The Bulldog and The Eagle II

Here is the map for The Bulldog and The Eagle II with units deployed:

Image

Here are the orders of battle:

BRITISH FORCES

Image

Image

BRITISH ARMOURED DIVISION

1. Armoured Brigade

1st Armoured Regiment:

1/I-A - Sherman Firefly tank squadron
1/I-B - Sherman Mk.I tank squadron
1/I-C - Sherman Mk.I tank squadron

2nd Armoured Regiment:

1/II-A - Sherman Firefly tank squadron
1/II-B - Sherman Mk.I tank squadron
1/II-C - Sherman Mk.I tank squadron

3rd Armoured Regiment:

1/III-A - Sherman Firefly tank squadron
1/III-B - Sherman Mk.I tank squadron
1/III-C - Sherman Mk.I tank squadron

Motor Battalion (mechanized):

1/IV-A - British HW 43 infantry (w/ Bren Carrier) company
1/IV-B - British Infantry 43 (w/ Bren Carrier) company
1/IV-C - British Infantry 43 (w/ Bren Carrier) company
1/IV-D - British Infantry 43 (w/ Bren Carrier) company
1/IV-E - British Infantry 43 (w/ Bren Carrier) company

2. Infantry Brigade (motorised)

1st Battalion:

2/I-A - British HW 43 infantry (w/ Lorry) company
2/I-B - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/I-C - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/I-D - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/I-E - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company

2nd Battalion:

2/II-A - British HW 43 infantry (w/ Lorry) company
2/II-B - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/II-C - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/II-D - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/II-E - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company

3rd Battalion:

2/III-A - British HW 43 infantry (w/ Lorry) company
2/III-B - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/III-C - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/III-D - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company
2/III-E - British Infantry 43 (w/ Lorry) company

3. Divisional Artillery

Field Artillery Regiment (self-propelled):

3/I-A - Sexton self-propelled artillery battery
3/I-B - Sexton self-propelled artillery battery
3/I-C - Sexton self-propelled artillery battery

Field Artillery Regiment (towed):

3/II-A - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery battery
3/II-B - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery battery
3/II-C - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery battery

4. Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment

4-A - Cromwell Mk.VII tank company
4-B - Cromwell Mk.VII tank company
4-C - Cromwell Mk.VII tank company

5. Anti-tank Regiment (Royal Artillery)

5-A - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank battery
5-B - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank battery
5-C - QF 17 pounder (w/ Matador) towed anti-tank battery
5-D - QF 17 pounder (w/ Matador) towed anti-tank battery

6. Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment (Royal Artillery)

6-A - Bofors 40mm (w/ Lorry) anti-air battery
6-B - Bofors 40mm (w/ Lorry) anti-air battery
6-C - Bofors 40mm (w/ Lorry) anti-air battery

7. Divisional Engineers (Royal Engineers)

7-A - Engineers 43 (w/ Lorry) squadron
7-B - Engineers 43 (w/ Lorry) squadron
7-C - Engineers 43 (w/ Lorry) squadron
7-D - Bridge Engineers (w/ Lorry) troop

8. Independent Machine Gun Company

8-/ - Engineers 43 (w/ Bren Carrier) company

ATTACHED UNITS

A9. Armoured Car Regiment (attached)

A9-A - Daimler armoured car squadron
A9-B - Daimler armoured car squadron
A9-C - Daimler Daimler Dingo scout car squadron
A9-D - Daimler Daimler Dingo scout car squadron

A10. Army Group Royal Artillery (AGRA) detachment (attached)

1st Regiment:

A10/I-A - BL 5.5 inch towed artillery (w/ Lorry) battery
A10/I-B - BL 5.5 inch towed artillery (w/ Lorry) battery

2nd Regiment:

A10/II-A - BL 5.5 inch towed artillery (w/ Lorry) battery
A10/II-B - BL 5.5 inch towed artillery (w/ Lorry) battery

AIRCRAFT (ROYAL AIR FORCE)

R11. Fighter Squadron

R11-A - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX fighter flight
R11-B - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX fighter flight
R11-C - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX fighter flight

R12. Tactical Bomber squadron

R12-A - de Havilland Mosquito Mk.VI S1 flight
R12-B - de Havilland Mosquito Mk.VI S1 flight

R13. Strategic Bomber squadron

R13-A - Handley Page Halifax Mk.III strategic bomber flight
R13-B - Avro Lancaster Mk.III strategic bomber flight

AIRFIELD DEFENCE

Airfield A.A. - QF 3.7 inch anti-air battery

GERMAN FORCES

Image

Image

GERMAN PANZER DIVISION

1. Armoured Regiment

1st Battalion:

1/I-A - Panther G tank company
1/I-B - Panther G tank company
1/I-C - Panther G tank company
1/I-D - Panther G tank company

2nd Battalion:

1/II-A - Panzer IVJ tank company
1/II-B - Panzer IVJ tank company
1/II-C - Panzer IVJ tank company
1/II-D - Panzer IVJ tank company

2. 1st Panzergrenadier Regiment (Mechanized)

1st Battalion:

2/I-A - Grenadier 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track) company
2/I-B - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track) company
2/I-C - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track) company
2/I-D - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track) company

2nd Battalion:

2/II-A - Grenadier 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
2/II-B - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
2/II-C - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
2/II-D - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company

Regimental support:

2/R-1 - sIG 38(t) M self-propelled artillery company
2/R-2 - Pioniere 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track) engineer company

3. 2nd Panzergrenadier Regiment (Motorised)

1st Battalion:

3/I-A - Grenadier 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
3/I-B - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
3/I-C - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
3/I-D - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company

2nd Battalion:

3/II-A - Grenadier 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
3/II-B - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
3/II-C - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company
3/II-D - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) company

Regimental support:

3/R-1 - sIG 38(t) M self-propelled artillery company
3/R-2 - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineer company

4. Armoured Artillery Regiment

1st Battalion (self-propelled):

4/I-A - Hummel self-propelled artillery battery
4/I-B - Wespe self-propelled artillery battery
4/I-c - Wespe self-propelled artillery battery

2nd Battalion (towed):

4/II-A - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery battery
4/II-B - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery battery
4/II-C - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery battery

3rd Battalion (towed):

4/III-A - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery battery
4/III-B - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery battery
4/III-C - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery battery

5. Armored Reconnaissance Battalion

5-A - Panzer II Luchs recon company
5-B - SdKfz 233 8Rad recon company
5-C - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon company
5-D - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon company

6. Panzerjager Battalion

6-A - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank company
6-B - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank company
6-C - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank company
6-D - 7.5 cm Pak 40 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-tank company

7. Army Flak Battalion

7-A - 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed anti-air battery
7-B - 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed anti-air battery
7-C - 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air battery

8. Armoured Pioneer Battalion

8-A - Pioniere 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track) engineer company
8-B - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineer company
8-C - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineer company
8-D - Bruckenpioniere (w/ Opel Blitz truck) bridge engineer train

AIRCRAFT (LUFTWAFFE)

L9. Fighter Staffel

L9-A - Focke-Wulf Fw 190A fighter schwarm
L9-B - Messerschmitt Bf 109G fighter schwarm
L9-C - Messerschmitt Bf 109G fighter schwarm

L10. Tactical Bomber Staffel

L10-A - Focke-Wulf Fw 190G tactical bomber schwarm
L10-B - Messerschmitt Me 410A tactical bomber schwarm

L11. Strategic Bomber Staffel

L11-A - Heinkel He 177A strategic bomber schwarm
L11-B - Junkers Ju 88A strategic bomber schwarm

AIRFIELD DEFENCE

Flugfeld FlaK - 12.8 cm FlaK 40 anti-air battery
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

I have re-thought out the 1944 Soviet Mechanized Corps to try and reduce the number of units and make it more comparable to its real-life size and strength in relation to a Panzer Division, while trying to maintain the corps organisation as much as possible.

These are the changes from the Mech Corps organisation from a few posts ago: the three infantry brigades have each lost a unit, while keeping their organic 76.2mm artillery; the armoured brigade has lost a tank unit; the Soviet Cavalry and Katyushas have been dropped (although will likely re-appear as attached independent regiments/brigades); the two SU artillery regiments have been conglomerated into a single SU-122 unit. The SU-122 was chosen as an averaged representation of the (light) SU-76s, (medium) SU-122s and (heavy) SU-152 units that were being used in the Mech Corps as self-propelled artillery (of those Soviet vehicles that are represented in the game). The SU-76 is a bit too weak and, like the towed 76.2mm artillery, only has a range of two hexes, while the SU-152 is quite powerful for a divisional artillery unit.

So here's the new Mechanized Corps, alongside a Panzer Division:

Image

Image

'44 Soviet Mechanized Corps

3 Mechanized (sic) Brigades each containing:

2 x Soviet Regular 43 infantry (w/ Truck)
1 x 76.2mm M1942 (w/ Truck) towed artillery

Armoured Brigade:

2 x T-34-85 tanks

Other units:

1 x SU-122 self-propelled artillery
1 x BA-64 recon
1 x SU-85 self-propelled anti-tank
1 x 37mm M1939 (w/ Truck) towed anti-air
1 x Soviet 43 Engineers (w/ Truck)

So that would make:

'44 Panzer Division = 13 units, 4,041 points
'44 Soviet Mechanized Corps = 16 units, 4,091 points
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

Here are the armies for the new The Eagle and the Bear I (mid '44), USSR vs Germany corps-level scenario.

The Soviets have more points spent on air units and have an advantage in the air (reflecting the historical conditions), but not air supremacy, so the German still have a chance to compete in the skies. That the Soviets have tactical bombers that can't attack and the Germans have tactical bombers that are fighter-bombers creates an interesting air-dynamic. The four Soviet fighters will have a slight/moderate advantage air-to-air against the four German fighters/fighter-bombers, while the Germans have better anti-aircraft capability. The Germans have only two aircraft that can perform an escort role to the Soviets four and the Soviets have more aircraft overall. The Germans have greater ground strength, of course.

SOVIET FORCES

Image

Image

Three Mechanized Corps each containing:

2 x T-34-85 tanks
6 x Regular 43 infantry (w/ Truck)

1 x SU-122 self-propelled artillery
3 x 76.2mm M1942 (w/ Truck) towed artillery

1 x BA-64 recon
1 x SU-85 self-propelled anti-tank
1 x 37mm M1939 (w/ Truck) towed anti-air
1 x Soviet Eng 43 engineers (w/ Truck)

Attached units:

1 x IS-2 heavy tank

1 x ISU-152 self-propelled anti-tank/artillery

1 x BM-13 Katyusha self-propelled artillery

1 x 152mm M1938 (w/ Truck) towed artillery
1 x 122mm M1938 (w/ Truck) towed artillery

1 x 85mm M1939 (w/ Truck) towed anti-aircraft

1 x Soviet Cavalry
1 x Soviet BridgEng (w/ Truck) bridge engineer

Aircraft:

2 x Yakovlev Yak-3 fighters
2 x Yakovlev Yak-9D fighters

2 x Il-2 Shturmovik tactical bombers
1 x Petlyakov Pe-2 tactical bomber

2 x Ilyushin Il-4 strategic bombers

GERMAN FORCES

Image

Image

Three Panzer Divisions each containing:

1 x Panther G tank
1 x Panzer IVJ tank

1 x 43 Grenadier (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
3 x 43 Wehrmacht Inf (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

1 x Wespe self-propelled artillery
1 x 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
1 x 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

1 x SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
1 x StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
1 x 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
1 x Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineers

Attached units:

1 x Tiger I heavy tank

1 x Jagdpanther self-propelled anti-tank

1 x Panzerwerfer 42 self-propelled artillery

2 x 21 cm Mrs 18 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy artillery

2 x 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy anti-air

1 x Kradschutzen motorcycle
1 x Bruckenpioniere (w/ Opel Blitz truck) bridge engineer

Aircraft:

1 x Focke-Wulf Fw 190A fighter
1 x Messerschmitt Bf 109G fighter

1 x Messerschmitt 410A tactical bomber
1 x Focke-Wulf Fw 190F tactical bomber

1 x Junkers Ju 88A strategic bomber
1 x Heinkel He 111H2 strategic bomber
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

Since they have organisational authenticity, I think I will go the whole hog and make the unit names in my scenarios authentic too. Here's one of the game unit = battalion scenario's three Panzer Divisions, along with the attached units and aircraft. I'm still not 100% sure about whether to go for Heerestruppen or Unterstellt for the attached units as I've seen them both used.

1st Panzer Division

1st Panzer Regiment:

1. I./Pz. 1 - Panther G tank
1. II./Pz. 1 - Panzer IVJ tank

4th Panzergrenadier Regiment:

1. I./Pz.Gr. 4 - Grenadier 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
1. II./Pz.Gr. 4 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

7th Panzergrenadier Regiment:

1. I./Pz.Gr. 7 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)
1. II./Pz.Gr. 7 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

10th Panzer Artillery Regiment:

1. I./Pz.Art. 10 - Wespe self-propelled artillery
1. II./Pz.Art. 10 - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
1. III./Pz.Art. 10 - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

Divisional support:

1. Pz.Aufkl. 13 - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
1. Pz.Jg. 16 - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
1. Flak. 19 - 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
1. Pz.Pi. 22 - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineers

Attached units [Heerestruppen/Unterstellt]:

H. s.Pz. 25 - Tiger II heavy tank

H. I./s.Art. 26 - 21 cm Mrs 18 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy artillery
H. II./s.Art. 26 - 21 cm Mrs 18 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy artillery

H. Werf. 27 - Panzerwerfer 42 rocket-launcher

H. I./s.Flak. 28 - 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy anti-air
H. II./s.Flak. 28 - 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy anti-air

H. Pi.Br. 29 - Bruckenpioniere (w/ Opel Blitz truck) bridge engineer

H. I./Fschm.Jg. 30 - Fallschirmjager 43 paratrooper
H. II./Fschm.Jg. 30 - Fallschirmjager 43 paratrooper
H. III./Fschm.Jg. 30 - Fallschirmjager 43 paratrooper

Aircraft [Luftwaffe]:

L. 1./JG 31 - Focke-Wulf Fw 190A fighter
L. 2./JG 31 - Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter
L. 3./JG 31 - Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter
L. 4./JG 31 - Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter

L. 5./ZG 32 - Messerchmitt 410A tactical bomber
L. 6./SG 33 - Focke-Wulf Fw 190F tactical bomber
L. 7./SG 33 - Focke-Wulf Fw 190F tactical bomber

L. 8./KG 34 - Junkers Ju 88A strategic bomber
L. 9./KG 34 - Heinkel He 177A strategic bomber

The aircraft units represent a Staffel in size. The Gruppen within a Geschwader were designated with Roman numerals (e.g. II./JG 31). From what I can tell, the Staffeln within the Gruppen were designated with a (Arabic) number along with the Geschwader number, omitting the Roman numeral Gruppe number (e.g. 6./JG 31).
Last edited by the_iron_duke on Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
the_iron_duke
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

I've been looking around for British Army abbreviations and acronyms and have come up with a few for the unit names of the British forces:

Armd. - armoured (tank)
Inf. - infantry
M.Inf. - motorized/mechanized infantry
Arty. - artillery
Recce. - recon
L.A.A. - light anti-aircraft
H.A.A. - heavy anti-aircraft
A.T. - anti-tank
Engr. - engineer
H.Arty. - heavy artillery
Para. - Paratroopers

The British formation names are rather different than the Germans with many regiments having unique names, so I've been wondering how to best work this into the game unit titles. Unlike the Germans' use of Roman numerals, the British used ordinal numbers. And the order is a little different as a Britisher would say something like "1st battalion, 23rd Infantry Brigade". So I'm thinking of something like this for the 1st British Armoured Division:

1. 1./1 Armd. - Sherman Firefly tank
1. 2./1 Armd. - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
1. 3./1 Armd. - Sherman Mk.I tank
1. 4./1 M.Inf. - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

1. 1./4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 2./4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 3./4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

1. 1./7 Arty. - Sexton self-propelled artillery
1. 2./7 Arty. - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery

1. 10 Recce. - Daimler AC recon
1. 13 A.T. - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
1. 16 L.A.A. - 40 mm Bofors (w/ Lorry) anti-aircraft gun
1. 19 Engr. - Engineer 43 (w/ Lorry)

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Maybe this would look neater:

1. 1-/1 Armd. - Sherman Firefly tank
1. 2-/1 Armd. - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
1. 3-/1 Armd. - Sherman Mk.I tank
1. 4-/1 M.Inf. - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

1. 1-/4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 2-/4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 3-/4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

1. 1-/7 Arty. - Sexton self-propelled artillery
1. 2-/7 Arty. - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery

EDIT: Actually I'll have to modify it. Either the two artillery units and the A.A. and A.T. are all together in a Royal Artillery "brigade" (although it's not technically a brigade) or they are all separate regiments with their own numbers. There are only two proper brigades in the British 1944 Armoured Division - the armoured and the (motorised) infantry.

So the artillery would instead be:

1. 7 Arty. - Sexton self-propelled artillery
1. 10 Arty. - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery

Or maybe:

1. 7 S.P.Arty. - Sexton self-propelled artillery
1. 10 Arty. - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery

So...

1st British Armoured Division

1st Armoured Brigade:

1. 1-/1 Armd. - Sherman Firefly tank
1. 2-/1 Armd. - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
1. 3-/1 Armd. - Sherman Mk.I tank
1. 4-/1 M.Inf. - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

4th Motorised Infantry Brigade:

1. 1-/4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 2-/4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 3-/4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

Divisional support:

1. 7 Arty. - Sexton self-propelled artillery
1. 10 Arty. - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery
1. 13 Recce. - Daimler AC recon
1. 16 A.T. - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
1. 19 L.A.A. - 40 mm Bofors (w/ Lorry) anti-aircraft gun
1. 22 Engr. - Engineer 43 (w/ Lorry)
Last edited by the_iron_duke on Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

Here are the re-named orders of battle for The Bulldog and The Eagle I scenario.

BRITISH FORCES

[1.] 1st Armoured Division

1st Armoured Brigade:

1. 1./1 Armd. - Sherman Firefly tank
1. 2./1 Armd. - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
1. 3./1 Armd. - Sherman Mk.I tank
1. 4./1 M.Inf. - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

4th Motorised Infantry Brigade:

1. 1./4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 2./4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
1. 3./4 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

Divisional support:

1. 7 Arty. - Sexton self-propelled artillery
1. 10 Arty. - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery
1. 13 Recce. - Daimler AC recon
1. 16 A.T. - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
1. 19 L.A.A. - 40 mm Bofors (w/ Lorry) anti-aircraft gun
1. 22 Engr. - Engineer 43 (w/ Lorry)

[2.] 2nd Armoured Division

2nd Armoured Brigade:

2. 1./2 Armd. - Sherman Firefly tank
2. 2./2 Armd. - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
2. 3./2 Armd. - Sherman Mk.I tank
2. 4./2 M.Inf. - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

5th Motorised Infantry Brigade:

2. 1./5 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
2. 2./5 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
2. 3./5 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

Divisional support:

2. 8 Arty. - Sexton self-propelled artillery
2. 11 Arty. - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery
2. 14 Recce. - Daimler AC recon
2. 17 A.T. - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
2. 20 L.A.A. - 40 mm Bofors (w/ Lorry) anti-aircraft gun
2. 23 Engr. - Engineer 43 (w/ Lorry)

[3.] 3rd Armoured Division

3rd Armoured Brigade:

3. 1./3 Armd. - Sherman Firefly tank
3. 2./3 Armd. - Cromwell Mk.VII tank
3. 3./3 Armd. - Sherman Mk.I tank
3. 4./3 M.Inf. - 43 British HW (w/ Bren Carrier)

6th Motorised Infantry Brigade:

3. 1./6 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
3. 2./6 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)
3. 3./6 M.Inf. - 43 British Infantry (w/ Lorry)

Divisional support:

3. 9 Arty. - Sexton self-propelled artillery
3. 12 Arty. - QF 25 pounder (w/ Quad) towed artillery
3. 15 Recce. - Daimler AC recon
3. 18 A.T. - Achilles self-propelled anti-tank
3. 21 L.A.A. - 40 mm Bofors (w/ Lorry) anti-aircraft gun
3. 24 Engr. - Engineer 43 (w/ Lorry)

[A.] Attached/Army Troops units:

Army Group Royal Artillery detachment:

A. 1./25 H.Arty. - BL 7.2 inch (w/ Matador) towed heavy artillery
A. 2./25 H.Arty. - BL 7.2 inch (w/ Matador) towed heavy artillery
A. 3./25 H.Arty. - BL 5.5 inch (w/ Lorry) towed artillery
A. 4./25 H.Arty. - BL 5.5 inch (w/ Lorry) towed artillery
A. 5./25 H.Arty. - BL 5.5 inch (w/ Lorry) towed artillery
A. 6./25 H.Arty. - BL 5.5 inch (w/ Lorry) towed artillery

Armoured car regiment:

A. 26 Recce. - Daimler Dingo recon

Heavy anti-air regiment:

A. 27 H.A.A. - QF 3.7 inch (w/ Matador) heavy anti-air

Royal Engineers bridging troop:

A. 28 Br.Engr. - Bridge Engineer (w/ Lorry)

Parachute brigade:

A. 1./29 Para. - 43 British Paras
A. 2./29 Para. - 43 British Paras
A. 3./29 Para. - 43 British Paras

[R.] Aircraft [Royal Air Force]:

Fighters:

R. 1./30 Ftr. - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX fighter
R. 2./30 Ftr. - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX fighter
R. 3./30 Ftr. - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX fighter
R. 4./30 Ftr. - Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IX fighter

Tactical bombers/fighter-bombers:

R. 1./31 Ftr.Bmbr. - de Havilland Mosquito Mk.VI S1 fighter-bomber
R. 2./31 Ftr.Bmbr. - de Havilland Mosquito Mk.VI S1 fighter-bomber
R. 3./31 Ftr.Bmbr. - Hawker Typhoon Mk.IB fighter-bomber

Strategic bombers:

R. 1./32 Bmbr. - Handley Page Halifax Mk.III bomber
R. 2./32 Bmbr. - Avro Lancaster Mk.III bomber

GERMAN FORCES

[1.] 1st Panzer Division

1st Panzer Regiment:

1. I./Pz. 1 - Panther G tank
1. II./Pz. 1 - Panzer IVJ tank

4th Panzergrenadier Regiment:

1. I./Pz.Gr. 4 - Grenadier 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
1. II./Pz.Gr. 4 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

7th Panzergrenadier Regiment:

1. I./Pz.Gr. 7 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)
1. II./Pz.Gr. 7 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

10th Panzer Artillery Regiment:

1. I./Pz.Art. 10 - Wespe self-propelled artillery
1. II./Pz.Art. 10 - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
1. III./Pz.Art. 10 - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

Divisional support:

1. Pz.Aufkl. 13 - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
1. Pz.Jg. 16 - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
1. Flak. 19 - 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
1. Pz.Pi. 22 - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineer

[2.] 2nd Panzer Division

2nd Panzer Regiment:

2. I./Pz. 2 - Panther G tank
2. II./Pz. 2 - Panzer IVJ tank

5th Panzergrenadier Regiment:

2. I./Pz.Gr. 5 - Grenadier 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
2. II./Pz.Gr. 5 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

8th Panzergrenadier Regiment:

2. I./Pz.Gr. 8 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)
2. II./Pz.Gr. 8 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

11th Panzer Artillery Regiment:

2. I./Pz.Art. 11 - Wespe self-propelled artillery
2. II./Pz.Art. 11 - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
2. III./Pz.Art. 11 - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

Divisional support:

2. Pz.Aufkl. 14 - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
2. Pz.Jg. 17 - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
2. Flak. 20 - 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
2. Pz.Pi. 23 - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineer

[3.] 3rd Panzer Division

3rd Panzer Regiment:

3. I./Pz. 3 - Panther G tank
3. II./Pz. 3 - Panzer IVJ tank

6th Panzergrenadier Regiment:

3. I./Pz.Gr. 6 - Grenadier 43 (w/ SdKfz 251/1 half-track)
3. II./Pz.Gr. 6 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

9th Panzergrenadier Regiment:

3. I./Pz.Gr. 9 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)
3. II./Pz.Gr. 9 - Wehrmacht Infantry 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck)

12th Panzer Artillery Regiment:

3. I./Pz.Art. 12 - Wespe self-propelled artillery
3. II./Pz.Art. 12 - 15 cm sFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery
3. III./Pz.Art. 12 - 10.5 cm leFH 18 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed artillery

Divisional support:

3. Pz.Aufkl. 15 - SdKfz 234/1 8Rad recon
3. Pz.Jg. 18 - StuG IIIG self-propelled anti-tank
3. Flak. 21 - 3.7 cm FlaK 37 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) towed anti-air
3. Pz.Pi. 24 - Pioniere 43 (w/ Opel Blitz truck) engineer

[H.] Attached units [Heerestruppen/Unterstellt]:

Independent heavy tank battalion:

H. s.Pz. 25 - Tiger II heavy tank

Werfer battalion:

H. Werf. 26 - Panzerwerfer 42 self-propelled rocket-launcher

Heavy artillery regiment:

H. I./s.Art. 27 - 21 cm Mrs 18 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy artillery
H. II./s.Art. 27 - 21 cm Mrs 18 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy artillery

Armoured car battalion:

H. Aufkl. 28 - SdKfz 222 recon

Heavy anti-aircraft regiment:

H. I./s.Flak. 29 - 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy anti-air
H. II./s.Flak. 29 - 8.8 cm FlaK 36 (w/ SdKfz 7 half-track) towed heavy anti-air

Bridge engineer abteilung:

H. Pi.Br. 30 - Bruckenpioniere (w/ Opel Blitz truck) bridge engineer

Fallschirmjager regiment:

H. I./Fschm.Jg. 31 - Fallschirmjager 43 paratrooper
H. II./Fschm.Jg. 31 - Fallschirmjager 43 paratrooper

[L.] Aircraft [Luftwaffe]:

Fighters:

L. 1./JG 32 Jagd. - Focke-Wulf Fw 190A fighter
L. 2./JG 32 Jagd. - Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter
L. 3./JG 32 Jagd. - Messerchmitt Bf 109G fighter

Tactical bombers/fighter-bombers:

L. 1./ZG 33 Jabo. - Messerchmitt 410A fighter-bomber
L. 2./SG 34 Jabo. - Focke-Wulf Fw 190F fighter-bomber
L. 3./SG 34 Jabo. - Focke-Wulf Fw 190F fighter-bomber

Strategic bombers:

L. 1./KG 35 Bomb. - Junkers Ju 88A bomber
L. 2./KG 35 Bomb. - Heinkel He 111H2 bomber
Last edited by the_iron_duke on Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:19 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

I have decided to apply the same naming methods to the Soviet forces and so have been searching for Soviet military abbreviations and acronyms. I have found authentic abbreviations and acronyms for every ground unit type, except for rocket-launchers.

These sites have been very helpful:
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/russia/sovmil-glossary.pdf
http://rkka.ru/iabbr.htm

ARMOURED: A.B.T.

автобронетанковый - avtobronetankovyj
автобронетанковое - avtobronetankovoe
абт - A.B.T.

INFANTRY : Str.

стрелковый - strelkovyj - infantry
стрелковая - strelkovaja - infantry
мотострелковый - motostrelkovyj - motorized infantry - M.Str

ARTILLERY: Art.

артиллерийский - artillerijskij
артиллерийская - artillerijskaja
артиллерия - artillerija
арт - Art.

тяжелая - tjazhelaja - heavy
самоходный - samohodnyj - self-propelled

RECON: Razv.

разведывательный - razvedyvatel'nyj
разведывательная - razvedyvatel'naja
разведка - razvedka
разведки - razvedki
разв - Razv
развед - Razved

ANTI-AIR: Zen.

зенитный - zenitnyj
зенитная - zenitnaja
зен - Zen.

ASSAULT GUN: S.A.U.

Самоходная артиллерийская установка - Samohodnaja artillerijskaja ustanovka - Self-propelled gun
САУ - S.A.U.

TANK DESTROYER: I.P.T.

истребитель танков - Istrebitel' tankov - tank destroyer
истребительный противотанковый - istrebitel'nyj protivotankovyj
истребительная противотанковая - istrebitel'naja protivotankovaja
ипт - I.P.T.

ROCKET LAUNCHERS:

реактивной артиллерии - reaktivnoj artillerii

ANTI-TANK : P.T.

противотанковая - protivotankovaja
противотанковый - protivotankovyj
пт - P.T. - A.T.

ENGINEER: Inzh.

инженерный - inzhenernyj
инженерная - inzhenernaja
инж - Inzh.

BRIDGE-ENGINEER: Mst.P. or Mst.Inzh.

понтонно-мостовой бригада - pontonno-mostovoj brigada - pontoon bridge brigade
мст - Mst.
мостовой-парк - mostovoj-park - bridge train

CAVALRY: Kav.

кавалерийский - kavalerijskij
кавалерийская - kavalerijskaja
кав - kav.

ALPINE: Gor.

горнострелковый - gornostrelkovyj
горнострелковая - gornostrelkovaja
горно - gorno
гор - gor

AIRBORNE: V.D.V.

авиадесантная - aviadesantnaja
вдв - воэдушно-десантные - vojedushno-desantnye - airborne troops
Воздушно-десантные войска - Vozdushno-Desantnye Vojska - airborne troops
вдв - V.D.V.
ThvN
Panzer Corps Moderator
Panzer Corps Moderator
Posts: 1408
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by ThvN »

the_iron_duke wrote:I have found authentic abbreviations and acronyms for every ground unit type, except for rocket-launchers.
Hello, I've been busy, so not too much online unfortunately. Katyusha units were known as "Guard Mortars" (гвардейские миномётные is what I get from Russian wiki).

All units equipped with rocket launchers were Guards, apparently.
the_iron_duke
Captain - Bf 110D
Captain - Bf 110D
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Am creating new balanced MP scenarios

Post by the_iron_duke »

I obtained the rocket-launcher description (реактивной артиллерии - reaktivnoj artillerii) from the description of the Katyusha rocket-launchers from the Katyusha page from the Russian wikipedia.

Here is how a Katyusha unit is titled from the Russian wiki:

44-й отдельный гвардейский миномётный дивизион реактивной артиллерии
44-j otdel'nyj gvardejskij minomjotnyj divizion reaktivnoj artillerii
44th Separate Guards Mortar Division rocket artillery

From the other Soviet abbreviations website:

гвардейский артиллерийская миномётный полк -
gvardejskij artillerijskaja minomjotnyj polk -
Guards artillery rocket launcher regiment (literally: Guards mortar artillery regiment)

Further info on Katyushas from (English) wikipedia:
wiki wrote: Initially, concerns for secrecy kept their military designation from being known by the soldiers who operated them. They were called by code names such as Kostikov guns (after the head of the RNII - the Reaction-Engine Scientific Research Institute), and finally classed as Guards Mortars.[2] The name BM-13 was only allowed into secret documents in 1942, and remained classified until after the war.[3]
Because they were marked with the letter K (for Voronezh Komintern Factory),[3] Red Army troops adopted a nickname from Mikhail Isakovsky's popular wartime song, "Katyusha", about a girl longing for her absent beloved, who has gone away on military service.[4]
So it seems that although they are of the rocket-launcher (reaktivnoj artillerii) category, they are operating in Guards Mortar (gvardejskij minomjotnyj) units.

Here is a page from the Russian wikipedia with the units Katyushas operated in:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Формирования реактивной артиллерии Красной Армии (1941—1945)

The abbreviation for Guards is:

гв - Gv.

And the abbreviation for mortars is:

мин - Min.

So Katyusha rocket-launcher units could perhaps in the game be titled as Gv.Min.
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