***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941

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Intenso82
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

McGuba wrote: Personally, I did not really feel the German units too strong when I test played 1941. As you wrote, if they are weaker, they cannot reach Moscow by December. My only concern was the relative weakness of the T-34, I think it should have a bit stronger GD (like 13-15) - but we have already discussed it in detail. I think the infantry and other units are well balanced for 1941. In later war years the Soviets can get some improved units for better balance. But in 1941 the Axis side has to be significantly stronger as they captured more territory than in any other year of the war.
Now I put GD 13 for T34/41 (although I still think that this is a lot, but not on the technical characteristics of the tank, but on the training of crews and the tactical capabilities of the command in 41year).
But we will test it :)

Also, in order to preserve the historical correspondence of the number of T34 tanks, I decided to use special zones for upgrading BT tanks in T34.
Like this, but this one will be used to upgrade to the Guards.
Image

The player will be given a certain number of slots, to upgrade a certain number of units.
To upgrade, you will need to put the unit in this marked zone.
This will be a script update.

I'm working on the fact that this update will be used for some subclasses of units, with Noupgrade trait,
To preserve their historical proportions. These are heavy tanks, combat engineers and some others.
But all this needs to be tested :)
McGuba wrote: I think the real challange with a Soviet campaign is how to make your players to keep playing even after suffering huge losses and lands in the first months. It is easy to understand that most people would lose enthusiasm after suffering the historical losses. The player has to be a little Stalin in order to keep the faith after all the setbacks, but for most people Stalin is not a good idol to follow. :|
:)
It was planned that the player would play for every single general.
Game is more about people, than about Stalin.
As a whole, as the general character of all Generals the player is responsible for all sectors of the front.
But above him there is a higher command.
And the higher command can give him orders or not give at his discretion. But always observes.
Moreover, how to execute the order all this remains at the discretion of the player.
And if a player often violates the orders of the high command, it can end badly for him.
What Stalin wants to do with such a shrewd general ...)
But I am limited by the number of AI zones for this. :(
I would like it to be not a black and white, but a more diverse story.
And not just a game based on the PZC engine.
But also a story about making decisions in the conditions of that time.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by McGuba »

Intenso82 wrote:Now I put GD 13 for T34/41 (although I still think that this is a lot, but not on the technical characteristics of the tank, but on the training of crews and the tactical capabilities of the command in 41year).
But we will test it
Sure, I think it will be good, especially if you add some German reinforcements as well, like Pz.IIIJ units for 1941.

By the way, I found this site really useful to re-calculate GD for some tanks and other armoured units in the game:
http://tanks.gg/tank/t-34/model?l=101113&vm=visual

Some guy here drew my attention to this site and it is really useful to get an average GD for a tank based on average armour thickness at horizontal angles. This can be useful for PzC as well as most tanks had different armour thicknesses sloped at different angles at different parts, but with this site it is possible to come up with an average armour thickness at normal firing angles which might help to calculate the GD.
Also, in order to preserve the historical correspondence of the number of T34 tanks, I decided to use special zones for upgrading BT tanks in T34.
Like this, but this one will be used to upgrade to the Guards.
I think this upgrade system is a good idea and will work nicely in RAW. I will do something similar with the Pz.II/Pz.38 to Marder cross class upgrades in my mod. I would only suggest you to make the upgrade area a bit less off - I do not really like the idea to have hexes in the tactical map which look way too different from the normal terrain. I think these orange and dark shaded stripes are not necessary to mark this upgrade area. It would be enough to have only the tent and maybe some sign post with cyrillic letters or a guard tower or something like that. I think there was the same problem with the original yellow square border markers and that's why I suggested to use the border poles instead. The best practise should be to have something which fits in well with the terrain but also easy to spot.
ImageImage
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Yrfin »

Intenso82 wrote: Now I put GD 13 for T34/41 (although I still think that this is a lot, but not on the technical characteristics of the tank, but on the training of crews and the tactical capabilities of the command in 41year).
What if make a lower Ini for low training crews ?
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Intenso82
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

McGuba wrote:By the way, I found this site really useful to re-calculate GD for some tanks and other armoured units in the game:
http://tanks.gg/tank/t-34/model?l=101113&vm=visual

Some guy here drew my attention to this site and it is really useful to get an average GD for a tank based on average armour thickness at horizontal angles. This can be useful for PzC as well as most tanks had different armour thicknesses sloped at different angles at different parts, but with this site it is possible to come up with an average armour thickness at normal firing angles which might help to calculate the GD.
Yes, it's a good resource.
Now we do not need to use the armor calculator to calculate the effective armor and tank armor schemes with angles :)
But it is a little strange that the side armor of the turret at KV-1 m1942 - 110 mm, it will be necessary to study this question.
Maybe it's by reason of the game or error.
I know that there were versions with screens of 75 +25= 100 mm. But these were screens. And there were only a few of them built.

A not bad source about Penetration and Armor.
Maybe even the developers of the WOT used it too :)
Returning to our discussion about 30 + 30mm, there is some information about it.
https://ru.scribd.com/doc/219173969/WWI ... nd-Gunnery

After reading the discussion of spotting range in the BFE topic, I also increased the spotting range for German artillery, AT. Perhaps this will reduce the loss of AI in these classes of units.
McGuba wrote: I would only suggest you to make the upgrade area a bit less off - I do not really like the idea to have hexes in the tactical map which look way too different from the normal terrain. I think these orange and dark shaded stripes are not necessary to mark this upgrade area. It would be enough to have only the tent and maybe some sign post with cyrillic letters or a guard tower or something like that. I think there was the same problem with the original yellow square border markers and that's why I suggested to use the border poles instead. The best practise should be to have something which fits in well with the terrain but also easy to spot
Without help, I can only draw simple images. :)
But I can make the background more transparent.
It is assumed that this hex will only appear during the upgrade period. And it should be easy to spot in the ZOOM-OUT mode.
Yrfin wrote:What if make a lower Ini for low training crews ?
T34 already has a lowered initiative.
I think that the INI should take into account the properties of the sight devices, command cupola, radio and the tactical advantages of command.
The question is where to relate the 3-man turret crew.
I think that this affects the rate of fire and initiative.
But change rate of fire is not very good.
Therefore, we can add initiative and attack.
Or for 2-man turret crew or 1-man turret crew, we can reduce these values.

As for the lowly trained crew, then of course the unit's experience = 0.
But if the experience of using tanks in practice took 3-5 hours. As it was in 41y. Maybe we need an extra penalty to reduce defense or attack.
And of course it's not just the crews. But about command and interaction at higher levels. Levels of battalions and above.

So far I'm at the beginning of the road, and I think the balance will be found :)
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by guille1434 »

Intenso82 wrote:
guille1434 wrote:Here is a more compact version of the HQ, which obscures a smaller part of the hex is based on...
Looks better?
Image
Hi Intenso! When you look at it while being in an empty map, both versions look good, but if the city is crowded with other units, I think the small one will look better...
About the brickwork color, yes, I already made the masks for all the versions of the HQ building, I will make the colored templates to cover those buildings in bricks! :-)
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Yrfin »

Intenso82 wrote: But it is a little strange that the side armor of the turret at KV-1 m1942 - 110 mm, it will be necessary to study this question.
Maybe it's by reason of the game or error.
I know that there were versions with screens of 75 +25= 100 mm. But these were screens. And there were only a few of them built.
The good book about KV.
http://www.kodges.ru/army/voenteh/28356 ... nk-kv.html
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

Yrfin wrote:
Intenso82 wrote: But it is a little strange that the side armor of the turret at KV-1 m1942 - 110 mm, it will be necessary to study this question.
Maybe it's by reason of the game or error.
I know that there were versions with screens of 75 +25= 100 mm. But these were screens. And there were only a few of them built.
The good book about KV.
http://www.kodges.ru/army/voenteh/28356 ... nk-kv.html
Yes, there is talk about the fact that the cast tower 110mm is equivalent to a welded tower of 75mm.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Yrfin »

Intenso82 wrote:I think that this affects the rate of fire and initiative.
But change rate of fire is not very good.
I didn't meet information on rate of fire for Tanks anywhere.
Same like for Arty caliber ?
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

uzbek2012 wrote: More like this rate on the fortress Brestintourist., and in Moscow the Kremlin to draw ?
Image
http://posmotrim.by/article/brestskaya_krepost1.html
:)
Image
More civilian look.
Image
Yrfin wrote:I didn't meet information on rate of fire for Tanks anywhere.
Same like for Arty caliber ?
I think this is a multifactor value.
But if such information is not disclosed, we can only assume.
That the Germans had an advantage in rate of fire for tanks.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

In the feedbacks, I saw a huge number of strategic bombers.
I was trying to reduce it using Noreplace trait.
But now I have a solution.
I will transfer the aircraft SB-2, to the class of tactical bombers.
Like a conventional front-line bomber. But I leave Noreplace trait.
But there will be an opportunity to upgrade them into a version of a strategic night bomber.
Or wait for an upgrade to other versions of the aircraft, for example, close support aircraft or Lendlis airplanes.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Yrfin »

Intenso82 wrote:In the feedbacks, I saw a huge number of strategic bombers.
I was trying to reduce it using Noreplace trait.
But now I have a solution.
I will transfer the aircraft SB-2, to the class of tactical bombers.
Like a conventional front-line bomber. But I leave Noreplace trait.
But there will be an opportunity to upgrade them into a version of a strategic night bomber.
Or wait for an upgrade to other versions of the aircraft, for example, close support aircraft or Lendlis airplanes.
May be make SB-2 switchable (8/9 or 9/8) ?
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

Yrfin wrote:
Intenso82 wrote:In the feedbacks, I saw a huge number of strategic bombers.
I was trying to reduce it using Noreplace trait.
But now I have a solution.
I will transfer the aircraft SB-2, to the class of tactical bombers.
Like a conventional front-line bomber. But I leave Noreplace trait.
But there will be an opportunity to upgrade them into a version of a strategic night bomber.
Or wait for an upgrade to other versions of the aircraft, for example, close support aircraft or Lendlis airplanes.
May be make SB-2 switchable (8/9 or 9/8) ?
After the upgrade to the night mode of the strategic bomber.
He will become multiswitch 8/9.

In general, I do not really like the upgrade line of the Unit Mark 1 -> Unit Mark 2 ... -> Unit Mark 10.
I would like to be upgrade with new meanings.
And also that there were many units with unique capabilities. Even if they are only one or few.
I will try to do this whenever possible. :)
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Yrfin »

Intenso82 wrote: In general, I do not really like the upgrade line of the Unit Mark 1 -> Unit Mark 2 ... -> Unit Mark 10.
I would like to be upgrade with new meanings.
Agreed. But PzC don't have even subclasses (at least light/medium/heavy) and have a very weak mechanics for cross-class upgrades.
Intenso82 wrote: And also that there were many units with unique capabilities. Even if they are only one or few.
I will try to do this whenever possible. :)
Thats too difficult to make even in small-scale scenario. Im tested the unique (small quantity) units, make it max [5], but its not looking good.
Last edited by Yrfin on Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Yrfin »

Intenso82 wrote:
Yrfin wrote:I didn't meet information on rate of fire for Tanks anywhere.
Same like for Arty caliber ?
I think this is a multifactor value.
But if such information is not disclosed, we can only assume.
That the Germans had an advantage in rate of fire for tanks.
Tanks and Sf.arty must have RoF at least -1/-2, compare with field guns same caliber, i think.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

Give T-34-57 a chance?

Modifications of the T34-57 tanks with a 57mm cannon were built around 50.
And even fewer participated in the battle for Moscow.
How do you think it is worth adding to Mod - 1 unit of T34-57 with the NoUpgrade, Noreplace traits?

Image
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by uzbek2012 »

Intenso82 wrote:Give T-34-57 a chance?

Modifications of the T34-57 tanks with a 57mm cannon were built around 50.
And even fewer participated in the battle for Moscow.
How do you think it is worth adding to Mod - 1 unit of T34-57 with the NoUpgrade, Noreplace traits?

Image

Пусть всё танки будут ) От Т-35 до самых не обычных и не серийных
http://www.nnre.ru/voennaja_istorija/so ... s_2/p6.php

Let all the tanks are ) From T-35 to the most not normal and not a serial

http://www.razlib.ru/transport_i_aviaci ... mii/p3.php

German options for modifications to our tanks.
http://ru-armor.livejournal.com/139241.html

SOME AIRCRAFT END OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
http://belayaistoriya.ru/blog/435741644 ... voy-voynyi.
Last edited by uzbek2012 on Tue May 02, 2017 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Yrfin »

Intenso82 wrote:Give T-34-57 a chance?
I would make him as a special award for special event or date (script).
Noupgrade, Noreplace, nopurchase, bonus trait.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

The new nation, subclasses and renaming units.

In the beginning, I planned to use a name filter for scripted upgrades.
But I saw that people can rename units, for example, to see heroes stats. Now this is not done informatively.

So I decided to add a new nation for the Russians. I called it "LendLease", it will have airplanes and LendLease tanks,
but not only. It will be used much wider.
But it will have the same flag and even probably no visible visual differences.
This will double the number of subclasses of units class up to 4. Most of them will be used for upgrade.
I will try to use subclasses for upgrade.
Of course it needs to be tested.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Yrfin »

Intenso82 wrote: In the beginning, I planned to use a name filter for scripted upgrades.
But I saw that people can rename units, for example, to see heroes stats. Now this is not done informatively.
What does it mean ? Can you say in more detail ?
McGuba wrote: Actually changing the name of a unit by the player does not affect this script. Only the orignal unit name given by the scenario designer and saved in the scenario file is considered.
Intenso82 wrote: So I decided to add a new nation for the Russians. I called it "LendLease", it will have airplanes and LendLease tanks,
but not only. It will be used much wider.
But it will have the same flag and even probably no visible visual differences.
This will double the number of subclasses of units class up to 4. Most of them will be used for upgrade.
I will try to use subclasses for upgrade.
Of course it needs to be tested.
Nice idea with "LendLease" !
I just think, what if...
Player have 3 nation (and maybe even more), for example A, B, C (friendly, with same shared flag).
But Nation A have only light tanks, Nation B - only medium tanks and Nation C - heavy.
So player can upgrade T-38 to T-70 (nation A), but can't upgrade T-34 (nation B) to KV (nation C).

Same for Arty, airplanes, transport units. So U-2 (class 8 ) can't be upgrade to SB (class 8 ) because different nations.
76 mm gun can't be upgraded to 155 mm and so on.
.
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Re: ***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 [DEMO]

Post by Intenso82 »

Yrfin wrote:What does it mean ? Can you say in more detail ?
When you have a hero, then to see its parameters, you need to go to the unit screen, and click, click, click ...
In one of the RAW demo saves that were sent to me, I saw an interesting trick. When the name of the unit changes to the parameter that the hero gives. So it's easier to navigate.

So send me your saves. It really helps me to improve the mod!
Although I see how many people have downloaded the mod, I don `t know how many passed beyond one turn :)
But I think that everyone has already noted in this thread :)
Yrfin wrote: McGuba wrote:
Actually changing the name of a unit by the player does not affect this script. Only the orignal unit name given by the scenario designer and saved in the scenario file is considered.
OK. But this is not the only reason.
With enough subclasses, you will not need to give names to later upgrade by name when design scenario.
Yrfin wrote:Nice idea with "LendLease" !
I just think, what if...
Player have 3 nation (and maybe even more), for example A, B, C (friendly, with same shared flag).
But Nation A have only light tanks, Nation B - only medium tanks and Nation C - heavy.
So player can upgrade T-38 to T-70 (nation A), but can't upgrade T-34 (nation B) to KV (nation C).

Same for Arty, airplanes, transport units. So U-2 (class 8 ) can't be upgrade to SB (class 8 ) because different nations.
76 mm gun can't be upgraded to 155 mm and so on.
Yes, in this sense.
But not so radical.
So far enough for me two nations.

For example.
Divisional and Corps Artillery.
Light - Medium - Heavy tanks - Guards tanks - Tanks LendLease.
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