Some Questions about Combat

[canuckgamer]

Whenever you choose to attack an enemy ground unit percentages for both possible impact and melee results appear. Are these percentages the final "odds" after everything from the terrain to quality of the unit and the difference in POA? Since the results can sometimes vary a lot from what you would expect given the "odds" or probability there must be a "die roll" made on a combat table. Are my assumptions correct?

I was reading the manual about non missile combat. The net POA between the the attacking and defending unit gives a positive adjustment to the unit with the higher net POA, correct. Reading page 139 in regards to Raw Longbowmen it states:

"Raw Longbowmen have no close combat capabilities at all so get the full 100 POA vs. mounted at impact and melee"

Shouldn't the mounted be getting the 100 POA since the longbowmen have no close combat capabilities? Anyway the wording seems odd. Please clarify.

[SnuggleBunnies]

Whenever you choose to attack an enemy ground unit percentages for both possible impact and melee results appear. Are these percentages the final "odds" after everything from the terrain to quality of the unit and the difference in POA? Since the results can sometimes vary a lot from what you would expect given the "odds" or probability there must be a "die roll" made on a combat table. Are my assumptions correct?

The final odds of win-draw-loss for the combat, which are not the same as the odds of a cohesion drop. Just because you lost combat doesn't mean you drop cohesion - it triggers the test. To see more under the hood, set ToolTips to Detailed, if you use Combat Reports set those to Detailed too, and turn on the Combat Log. You can also CTRL + click on any unit to get detailed info.

I was reading the manual about non missile combat. The net POA between the the attacking and defending unit gives a positive adjustment to the unit with the higher net POA, correct. Reading page 139 in regards to Raw Longbowmen it states:

"Raw Longbowmen have no close combat capabilities at all so get the full 100 POA vs. mounted at impact and melee"

Shouldn't the mounted be getting the 100 POA since the longbowmen have no close combat capabilities? Anyway the wording seems odd. Please clarify.

You missed a very crucial detail. That +100 for missiles on pg139 is for "Pure missile troops defending other obstacles, if not FRAGMENTED or SEVERELY DISORDERED." In other words, *mixed* missile/melee units such as Skoutatoi and Archers, or Pavisiers & Crossbowmen simply get an additional (to what they have, not compared to their opponent) 25 Impact like other infantry behind obstacles, not the full +100 that Bowmen or Lights get.

In Melee, Bow type units get 100 melee POA vs cav for Protection, or if they have a melee capability but it's not 100%, enough Protection to bring them up to 100 melee POA (such as Crossbowmen with their 50% Swordsmen trait). Interestingly, it does look like the mixed missiles get some POA from this if their native melee POA is under 100, to bring them up to 100, as in the case of Skoutatoi & Archers with their 50 Defensive Spear POA in Melee.

So, what does this mean in practice? Let's look at the example of Impact and Melee of Men at Arms vs Raw Longbowmen, first in the Open, then when the Raw Longbowmen are behind an obstacle (either stakes or the irrigation ditches found on Middle Eastern Agricultural maps) using the Impact and Melee tables.

Open:

Impact:
Men at Arms:
Superior +50
Knightly Lancers (Only in open terrain) +200 vs foot, unless these are steady, non-charging pike, offensive spearmen or defensive spearmen
Mounted (Only in open terrain) +100 vs light foot, bowmen or mob
= 350.

Raw Longbowmen:
Raw -25
=-25

So, the difference is 375, with POA differences maxing out at 200 in FoG.

Melee:
Men at Arms:
Superior +50
Mounted Swordsmen +100 vs foot, unless these are steady and pike, offensive spearmen, defensive spearmen or defending an obstacle
Better Armour +100 (up to +100 vs foot, up to +50 vs mounted, vs any except artillery or elephants. Enemy heavy weapon cancels the first 50POA of armour advantage.)
=250

Raw Longbowmen:
Raw -25
=-25

So, a gap of 275 this time, again capped out at 200.

Raw Longbowmen behind an Obstacle:
Impact:
Men at Arms:
Superior +50
Knightly Lancers does not apply, due to the requirement of it being Open terrain. Same with the +100 vs Bowmen or Light Foot in Open.
=50

Raw Longbowmen:
Raw -25
Obstacle +100 (Pure Missile troops defending other obstacles, if not FRAGMENTED or SEVERELY DISORDERED +100 vs any mounted)
=75

So, +25 in favor of the Raw Longbowmen

Melee:
Men at Arms:
Superior +50
Armor +100
Mounted swordsmen does not apply fighting Steady or Disrupted infantry across an obstacle
=150

Raw Longbowmen:
Raw -25
Obstacle +100
=75

So, 75 in favor of the Men at Arms, although Combat Strength Modifier (the larger number of men in the Raw Longbowmen unit) will end up flattening that somewhat during the melee.

And this is far from the only way these units could interact - Disorder or Disruption etc will alter these calculations.

You absolutely do not have to memorize all this though. The TLDR is - cavalry shouldn't attack men behind obstacles, unless they have a very good reason for doing so, or those men have already been badly shot or cut up, are so weak that they are likely to evade like lights in non-disordering terrain, or Mob, which gain the +25 from the Obstacle for infantry but are still terrible. So, so, bad.

[canuckgamer]

Wow, there is a lot more to this game than I thought. Thanks for the very informative reply Snuggle. I really hope that there will be a FOG in to the age of gunpowder.

[SnuggleBunnies]

Wow, there is a lot more to this game than I thought. Thanks for the very informative reply Snuggle. I really hope that there will be a FOG in to the age of gunpowder.

There sure is, you're welcome, and I assume you are aware of Pike and Shot and Sengoku Jidai? Also the later Medieval DLCs do feature cannons and handguns.

My hope is for Pike and Shot II with a wider scope, but I will take anything from these devs and enjoy it.