First FoG Army - Syracusans @ 600 points

[Valhalla]

Hi everyone.

Well, after considering the Early Germans for my first army, and after discovering they'd be very boring to play (lack of superior troops, lack of medium foot, lack of good cavalry... in fact, lack of almost everything), I decided to go for the Syracusan army (that can also be turned into a Greek Army later without changing the figures).
It's my first army in FoG ever, but please, criticize as hard as you can

Field Commander
Troop Commander
Troop Commander
2 BGs - 4 Bases each - Greek Cavalry / Campanians - Cv Armoured, Superior, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen
1 BG - 6 Bases - Bodyguard Hoplites - HF Protected, Superior, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen
2 BGs - 6 Bases each - Citizen Hoplites - HF Protected, Average, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen
2 BGs - 6 Bases each - Mercenary Hoplites - HF Protected, Average, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen
1 BG - 6 Bases - Scutarii Mercenaries - MF Protected, Average, Undrilled, Impact Foot, Swordsmen
2 BGs - 6 Bases each - Archers - LF, unprotected, Average, Drilled / Undrilled, Bow

That's a total of 610 points, I really don't know what to change to get to 600. I've tried to maximize the point cost of some things, for example, both BGs of the Citizen hoplites are Drilled, so as to make the army as cheap as possible (money)... but if you convince me to include other things, or go for undrilled hoplites, I have no problem of doing it.
Thanks for your time.

Good luck

[Robert241167]

Hi Valhalla

May I ask why 600 points?

The standard in the UK is 650 or 800 points with some exceptions.

Rob

[david53]

Hi Valhalla

May I ask why 600 points?

The standard in the UK is 650 or 800 points with some exceptions.

Rob

Is he in the UK I think the US use 600 points a lot?

[Valhalla]

Well, actually I'm from Argentina, not from the UK

Here we're just starting, so some of the guys who are playing just have the starter armies (which are 600 points), and no more than that. So mainly that's why, here almost nobody has more than that. Although it could be a good choice to make an army of 800 points or 650 points, and then, when choosing an army for the battles of 600, I could have more options.

Thanks for the reply

[david53]

I think you'll struggle with protected average troops in BG's of 6's would be a bit open to shooting.

[Valhalla]

So you say I should get rid of the Bodyguard hoplites, and instead increase the size of the other 4 Hoplite BGs to 8 bases each? It could be, but... no superior? I think I'll struggle with average protected in melee too. The Superior unit can add a little punch.

What do you think about including the HF Gallic Mercenaries? Do you think it's worth?

[deadtorius]

Depends on what you are fighting, if they don't have impact foot I would consider the Gauls. If its against Romans your Gauls and Spanish will get eaten alive by the superior swordsmen.

Being undrilled its best if you can deploy opposite your intended target and just let them loose, good luck getting them to turn or wheel once the enemy gets close but impact foot is pretty good especially in the impact phase against most troops. My Galatians have been known to eat their way through opponents, and sometimes get their behinds handed to them as well.

[Valhalla]

Well, I'd be playing mainly against Alexandrian Macedonian, Seleucids, Spartans, Carthaginians, and sometimes against Romans (Republican and Caesarian) and Gauls.

Don't you see an army mainly composed of Offensive Spearmen a little bit boring? Should I take out the bodyguards and add more Medium Foot? Should I field the Italian Mercenaries (Light Spear, Swordsmen MF)?
The Gauls are intresting (I really love the gallic miniatures), but being HF makes them as slow as the Hoplites, and as you say, being undrilled makes them very difficult to move around...

Thanks a lot, and sorry if some of my questions are silly haha

[deadtorius]

spears are good, I run the Selucid army myself so my advice would have been go for an elephant army, but since you can't have any that advice is worthless. Good thing about heavy impact foot is it can go into crappy terrain and will lose dice but will keep the same POA's unlike spear and pike that need nice clear terrain or lose those precious POA's.

I would immagine an all spear army would look nice with all the fancy shields and only having to be 2 deep gives you better front coverage so you can block your flanks better.

You might want to consider some light horse for fast hit and run attacks, or driving in your opponents lights. if you get into melee, you get full dice versus light foot and they get 1/2 dice versus you.

A line of javelin men make a nice screen that keeps your enemy from bringing up his lights and forcing your troops out of their nice line.

If possible I would suggest you try to impact with as many of your battle groups at the same time as possible to avoid your enemy getting overlaps on you.

[Valhalla]

I hadn't considered that thing about terrain with the Impact Foot, it's a good thing to know.
The problem about all-spear army, is that it becomes a "just-push-forward" army, I mean, with no strategy. I've read that the Syracusan army has combined arms and that's good, it's not a straightforward army, but isn't a all-tactics army, because it has troops like Hoplites.

I have not the option to include Light horses... just with a Numidian ally, but at 600 points, having an allied general would be a mistake, I think.

Thanks again

[Blathergut]

FC + TC x2
2 BGs - 4 Bases each - Greek Cavalry / Campanians - Cv Armoured, Superior, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen
1 BG - 6 Bases - Bodyguard Hoplites - HF Protected, Superior, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen
2 BGs - 6 Bases each - Citizen Hoplites - HF Protected, Average, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen
2 BGs - 6 Bases each - Mercenary Hoplites - HF Protected, Average, Drilled, Offensive Spearmen
1 BG - 6 Bases - Scutarii Mercenaries - MF Protected, Average, Undrilled, Impact Foot, Swordsmen
2 BGs - 6 Bases each - Archers - LF, unprotected, Average, Drilled / Undrilled, Bow

I would:
Drop one Cv BG and take a LH BG and make the remaining Cv average: [68 + 68 = 136 originally > 52 + 28 = 80 > save 56pts)
Could get an 8pak of those Italian MF mercenaries LS.Swords

[deadtorius]

I have not the option to include Light horses

look at the second half of your list, optional troops. First line is Tarentines, light horse can have up to 6 but I would stick with 4 bases. Easier to manouver and get through tight spaces.

Drilled troops allows you to do more than just move forward but with your main battle line that is all you are likely to do anyway so going for undrilled for your center is another option since they will just be rolling forward.... ever so slowly.

Put a general with your light horse and double move up to your enemy, that will keep them from making much use of double moves unless their skirmish line can keep you at bay. it can help sometimes.

[Valhalla]

Yeap, I saw it right after I answered that. So that would be a good idea then... but will let me with less shock superior cavalry...

Are javelinmen / slingers better than LF archers? I mean, archers cost 1 point more per base, but they have the bow which has a longer range. Should I keep the bodyguards then? Or they are not worth it? They'll give some punch to the battle line, and as they are all protected, having superior troops is almost a must, but they are expensive, and take out the options for more MF troops to support the other Hoplites.

Do you think Syracusa is a good army to start with? Too straightforward perhaps?

Thanks a lot, again

[marioslaz]

Well, I'd be playing mainly against Alexandrian Macedonian, Seleucids, Spartans, Carthaginians, and sometimes against Romans (Republican and Caesarian) and Gauls.

Don't you see an army mainly composed of Offensive Spearmen a little bit boring? Should I take out the bodyguards and add more Medium Foot? Should I field the Italian Mercenaries (Light Spear, Swordsmen MF)?
The Gauls are intresting (I really love the gallic miniatures), but being HF makes them as slow as the Hoplites, and as you say, being undrilled makes them very difficult to move around...

Thanks a lot, and sorry if some of my questions are silly haha

A BG of MF for me would be a good choice, because you have more tactical options. Good anyway to link spear armed infantry to cavalry. Your cavalry move faster than HF spearmen, so if you have a MF BG you can fill the hole between cavalry and spearmen. You can do also with LF, but it's a weaker opposer to confront troops which could try to explore flank of your spearmen. I like hoplite in BG of 6, but I must admit that this is a choice more aesthetic than efficient (I'm not a competitive player, so use my suggestion at your own risk ). Anyway, with so few points I think BGs in 6 are the best choice.

[Blathergut]

Yeap, I saw it right after I answered that. So that would be a good idea then... but will let me with less shock superior cavalry...

Are javelinmen / slingers better than LF archers? I mean, archers cost 1 point more per base, but they have the bow which has a longer range. Should I keep the bodyguards then? Or they are not worth it? They'll give some punch to the battle line, and as they are all protected, having superior troops is almost a must, but they are expensive, and take out the options for more MF troops to support the other Hoplites.

Do you think Syracusa is a good army to start with? Too straightforward perhaps?

Thanks a lot, again

just try it and enjoy...play and each time try something else a bit different w the army...each of us would run it differently, but none would be necessari;y better

[deadtorius]

Are javelinmen / slingers better than LF archers? I mean, archers cost 1 point more per base, but they have the bow which has a longer range

Depends on what your target is, javelins are best ranged weapon versus elephants, and also best in melee against them. Bows and slings are nice for the range but not so good versus being ridden down by light horse, javelins will get a + for impact.

Try some games out and see what you think works best for you. I would paint up more points of troops than you need just so you can swap out troops depending on your opponent. Some troops will do better versus certain enemies than others so having some options is always nice.

Good luck with your army

[Valhalla]

Well, thanks for all your advices, they've been really helpful .

My question is... why do the Syracusans have not the option to include Medium Foot gallic mercenaries? All the other armies that have the option for Gallic Mercenaries can choose to field them as Medium Foot or Heavy Foot... is that some kind of error?
I know, I can field the Italian mercenaries, but they are not the same, besides, I love the gallic warrior miniatures. I thought about using the Italian rules and fielding Gauls... but "drilled" doesn't suit them very well

Are Thureophoroi usefull? I mean, I've allready got 4 units of Offensive Spearmen, I think that Impact Foot/LtSpear and Swordsmen would be better for a medium foot in this army.

Thanks a lot again

[deadtorius]

My seclucid army Galatians can only be heavy foot, so don't feel too bad about not being able to make them mediums. Upside is they don't get a -1 for losing against impact foot in open terrain. Just watch for those elephants that will show up in the Selucid, Carthaginian and even LRR lists. They like to eat HF.

Are Thureophoroi usefull?

The MF option gives you some faster troops, they can go into the rougher terrain types and not be disordered, which would make your hoplites unsteady so your opponents swords would count POA's again. Little subtle things like that that you might not notice until its game time and you get a bit of a surprise in combat. I use them in my pike army since they can go into the non-open stuff and operate pretty well. They can make a good reserve force since they move a little faster than the rest of your foot. So yes I would say they are useful.

[DaiSho]

Hi everyone.
That's a total of 610 points, I really don't know what to change to get to 600. I've tried to maximize the point cost of some things, for example, both BGs of the Citizen hoplites are Drilled, so as to make the army as cheap as possible (money)... but if you convince me to include other things, or go for undrilled hoplites, I have no problem of doing it.
Thanks for your time.

Drop your citizens to undrilled. Put them towards the end of your deployment batches. There will always be a place where they will very clearly 'just go forward', so put them there. With a General they wheel like anyone else. You have the Mercs to do the hard work anyway - that's what mercs are for

Ian