WINTER UPDATE ?

[terminator]

There are still bugs in the official game...

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[bru888]

Such as what, specifically?

[Horst]

Such as what, specifically?

Ignore his sarcasm!

[bru888]

Such as what, specifically?

Ignore his sarcasm!

Hmmm. My naïveté sometimes surprises even me. Go ahead and sell me a bridge that you don't want (or own).

For the record, I thought he was talking about bugs in the Winter War DLC.

[Hmmm, again. I am refraining from talking about superfluous, throwaway threads ... ]

Well, the only fixes currently available are the ones in your OoB v9.2.5 - Fixes & Tweaks thread and the thing that I threw together in Allies Victorious/Bulge missing event text. Again for the record, it is hoped that developers will adopt these community-provided updates in a future patch but there is no official word on that.

[Horst]

It's okay, Bru.
Mr. T only prayed to the sleeping gods for some words of wisdom during this winter, in particular for another patch.
I'm afraid it's for naught, as I've already frighten them all off, except Shards nursing his precious tournaments.

If someone is looking for bugs, the first two pages here still offer enough unresolved issues:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=541

[bru888]

If someone is looking for bugs, the first two pages here still offer enough unresolved issues:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=541

Yes, those are all bug reports. But I was talking about the ones that we (you, that is, by a vast margin) have fixed (or tweaked) in their absence.

By the way, I will use this opportunity to inquire of you or anyone else out there as to whether there are any long-standing, unresolved issues with units.csv that we may want to collectively come to an agreement that should be fixed in 9.2.5.

[bru888]

By the way, I will use this opportunity to inquire of you or anyone else out there as to whether there are any long-standing, unresolved issues with units.csv that we may want to collectively come to an agreement that should be fixed in 9.2.5.

For example, for time immemorial, Erik has been pleading with the developers to close the gap in available Australian infantry units. They never paid any attention to him and the only improvement was when they wanted Australian infantry for 1942 for their "Allies this-and-that" DLC. Before that, there was a two-year gap.

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Hence, that unit was added. However, there is still a time gap of availability and no separate 1943 version of Australian infantry.

Now, I do not have the tools to create new units for this game, so I am not advocating that. What I am suggesting is to at least extend the australian_infantry_42 unit to be available until 9/2/1944 for continuity's sake.

I will do this with my private copy of units.csv as I am now moving ahead with making my own personal version of OOB using all sorts of my own tweaks (simple stuff that I know how to do) and your OoB v9.2.5 - Fixes & Tweaks. Is this something that we want to do together, and post an updated units.csv in Scenario Design like you did?

Note: Taking your approach, I am not advocating these "fixes and tweaks" as a mod. I am talking about overwriting the original game files with improved versions. Of course, players must decide whether they want to do this because, if and when a "developer" does drop by (i.e., get assigned) to do a bit of work on this game, he or she will do so and probably fail to notice or not bother to include some or even any of these changes. They would have to be addressed again each time there is an update. I am crossing the Rubicon by making this my final version of OOB and, if or when they ever decide to do something meaningful again with OOB, treating that as a new, separate version of the game. Think it over.

[Horst]

Believe me, I've already tried my beginner's luck with all these issues, but some like LoS, sounds (hello oil pump!), and weird ley-line geometry are way beyond my pitiful comprehension.

Guys, I can only recommend to start something like an unofficial stats-fix pack as mod.
The Gabe mod was already a good start.
In the end, you only need to make it up-to-date and useful enough to also create future scenarios and campaigns around it.

Horst off for today.

[bru888]

Believe me, I've already tried my beginner's luck with all these issues, but some like LoS, sounds (hello oil pump!), and weird ley-line geometry are way beyond my pitiful comprehension.

Guys, I can only recommend to start something like an unofficial stats-fix pack as mod.
The Gabe mod was already a good start.
In the end, you only need to make it up-to-date and useful enough to also create future scenarios and campaigns around it.

Horst off for today.

So I was thinking about this. You did NOT make a mod out of OoB v9.2.5 - Fixes & Tweaks; instead you did a direct overwrite of an original game file (and added a small language file) instead. The reason for this is because when one makes a normal custom mod, one does not have access to the file that you changed. Which approach (direct overwrite) I am fine with (but see the bolded, italicized note above).

[I am thinking as I type ... often a very successful exercise.] Thus what you are advocating is to see if Gabe's mod may have addressed the Australian Infantry situation that I described (or one of Erik's own mods, come to think of it). That is, maybe there is already an improved units.csv file out there, in one of those available mods. * See below.

This means that I can have the best of both worlds without any further effort on anybody's part. Your fixes and tweaks are in place (as is my own stuff) and all I have to do is, for the first time, to look into one of their "improvement mods" in addition to the usual Battle of Britain and Spanish Prelude mods. According to what you said, your fixes and tweaks should work with all these mods and hopefully not change the way that they play except for the better.

This is opening up a whole new vista to me. The resources are already out there for the taking and my (final) version of OOB will be a customized blend of all of it. Thanks.

[bru888]

* Interesting. I looked at two major custom mods, and neither of them had addressed the Australian Infantry situation.

One, in fact, has apparently not been updated in a while and was missing the newest official DLC Australian infantry unit. His mod will still work, in itself, but did not address my search for resolution of this matter. If not, I may not be able to edit DLC or design scenarios using Australian Infantry in 1942-1943.

So, I am going to edit my own unit.csv file (starting with the official file from v.9.2.5), merely extending availability dates of what is already in there to cover the whole war, as I mentioned above. And my personal preference will be to just overwrite the default game file rather than making my own mod. This suits me; YMMV. (Always back up original files before overwriting them, by the way.)

Holy smokes, this makes me want to play OOB again! My own version of it, that is.

[Erik2]

Note that you can run both the Steam and the Slitherine version of OOB on the same PC at the same time.
I regularly use one version for play testing a scenario and the other one for editing the same scenario.

So my plan is to update my Slitherine version with Horst and other custom fixes and use Steam standard OOB for multi playing non-modded scenarios.

[Horst]

There are four possibilities:
1. wait for Santa Claus to fullfil your wishes
2. change the original files to make it compatible for almost anything
3. create a mod-module that better supports custom content creators
4. wait for someone else to do point 2 or 3 for you...

Games usually only include objects and units that are used by its content.
Offering something originally unused would possibly only reduce the sales of further DLCs later if some evil communists offer such content for free.

Tough luck with the aussies, kiwis, frogs, and other minor factions.
It's really not hard to create additional infantry variants and can be done in less than five minutes.
New units require next to their name in language files a new id numbers where the compatibility trouble starts.
If you use the same number for e.g. australian_infantry_43 then you could also use them together with other mods that use the same id, otherwise you only end with plenty japanese placeholder tanks on maps.
Theoretically, you could also create another australian_infantry_42 copy with a new id but name it '43 in the language txt file. This saves yourself the trouble with a new unit icon put into Graphics\Units.
If you only use these new units for playing through something like an Australian campaign then it normally doesn't matter what id number new units get.
It's only important if a custom creator starts placing or spawning these units on a map.
If there is a consensus about adding missing and badly needed units and use a unique id number for such units, then this would make a lot of mods more compatible to each other, or simply create a single mod-module that binds them all...eh something like this.

If you want the careful approach then rather only change the availability dates, so you can purchase e.g. australian_infantry_42 longer.

I mentioned the Gabe Mod because he has already made plenty notes and fixes about inconsistencies in particular among infantry unit types. Such fixes should be taken over in anyone's mod module.
Check out his spreadsheets that are included in the Gabe Mod's download archive!

[bru888]

I will do this with my private copy of units.csv as I am now moving ahead with making my own personal version of OOB using all sorts of my own tweaks (simple stuff that I know how to do) and your OoB v9.2.5 - Fixes & Tweaks.

Well, one thing I finally got around to doing after years of intending to do so was to clean up and rearrange the generic units.csv file. I thought I would share it with you all just for interest's sake; although it has no alterations of data — not even the Australian Infantry availability dates that I mentioned above — and although I have tested it repeatedly with various DLC, I cannot guarantee that it will work for you, of course. I have confidence, but don't use it unless you keep a copy of the original file from version 9.2.5.

Yes you can see that I used a CSV editor which made it very easy (and foolproof, hopefully) to move rows of data up and down the file. Some folk swear that a spreadsheet program like Excel can be used for this purpose as long as one knows how to convert from/to CSV file format, but I have never had any success doing so.

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units.zip

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[Horst]

As next step, you could better sort these newzealand, south_africa, some German, and other allied units that were thrown lazily at the bottom of the csv file with the latest Allied DLCs. Someone was fed up of the game, as it seems.
The order in the csv is also the order you see in the purchase screen and also in the editor.

I suggest you create a new topic in the scenario forum. This here is a bad place for such project, might it be personal or not at first.

What could be useful is to create a template-mod with all unit stats fixes and maybe some graphical ones.
Starters would have it easy then to create their own mod.
I know how people love to exchange the title screen picture for their mod, so a place holder pic could also give a clue what size this picture has to be.
In the end, you can still update this template-mod(ule) with new fixes that could be easily taken over to already existing mods that were created based on this one.

Renaming the extension to txt and back to csv should also work, but it's surely rather only useful when comparing changes or copying over large parts instead of editing and adding new units.
As txt, it's easier to import into Excel where it's important to convert the columns to text, but if someone has a proper csv-editor, all power to you!
The conversion failure is typically in the availability dates format and the attack values with the hyphen.

[bru888]

As next step, you could better sort these newzealand, south_africa, some German, and other allied units that were thrown lazily at the bottom of the csv file with the latest Allied DLCs. Someone was fed up of the game, as it seems.
The order in the csv is also the order you see in the purchase screen and also in the editor.

That's what I already did, and for the reason that you stated (aside from being OCD ).

Within each faction (now in alphabetical order except with //GENERIC still at the bottom and with New Zealand and South Africa separately listed), I arranged units in the order of what I believe the original designer set up:

category: land, air naval
class: [land] infantry, recon, tank, anti-tank, artillery, anti-air, transport land*, [air] fighter, tactical bomber, strategic bomber, recon, transport air*, [naval] destroyer, cruiser, battleship, carrier, submarine.

*These are the only places that I varied from traditional, moving the transports to the end of the line so as to not confuse them with recon vehicles.

So, yes, now the units will be grouped properly in the purchase screen and also in the editor.

[Horst]

Good idea with the transports ordering, also I have also created a couple of transports based on recon units, which can easily be mixed up.
Your sheet looks much better than vanilla, which I have finally taken a look at.

You could also still look around if there aren't more Brit units the Commonwealth troops have used in the past, editing the faction colum. Shouldn't really matter if you create a scenario based on such edits.
That damn spawn bug with incompatible transports still remains an unresolved issue, possibly the worst of all IMO.

[bru888]

Thanks for the tips.

PUBLIC: Please be aware, this rearranged units.csv file is NOT a mod. For some things that we have posted here as FIXES (and desirable tweaks), we have linked to a couple of threads in the Scenario Design forum (in addition to "flashing neon signs" in the Tech Support forum, linked to the same threads).

On the other hand, this units.csv file has not been altered in the least except for the order of things which 1) makes locating units in the file easier, and 2) makes units appear in an orderly fashion in the game and in the editor.

Remember something else: I am doing this because, for the download version of OOB, I have finally taken myself "offline" at version 9.2.5 (and the conclusion of the Allies campaigns). Meaning, I am not updating downloaded OOB anymore, in favor of fixing, tweaking, and enhancing it myself.

Now, even if the developers do show up again with another update, I am not going to accept it. After I am done with the stuff that I have seen in the forums, including Horst's work, there will be no further need.

What I will do instead, if Slitherine ever comes out with an OOB expansion to an earlier or later conflict, or in the unlikely event that they do another interesting DLC for WWII, then I will take Erik's suggestion to obtain that version of OOB through Steam (thanks, Erik, for that suggestion).

I am saying all this for one big reason: These fixes and tweaks to the base game will be overwritten by a future OOB update, if it ever comes. That was a big reason why I never made these changes to units.csv in the past. Each time, I would have to reapply my revised units.csv WITH whatever new units and changes that the developers had made. You can see that would have been a ridiculously long process.

So again, I can tinker with units.csv and other game files now, knowing that they will never be updated again except by me. Please bear this in mind before you attempt to do what I and some others are now doing.

[bebro]

Just re Aus inf 43 - it has not been added because it is not used in official content. That's always what guides additions. Late Aus inf was in for Pacific from the good ol days of OOB Pac, earlier types have been requested for use in the more recent Allied DLCs.

[bru888]

Just re Aus inf 43 - it has not been added because it is not used in official content. That's always what guides additions. Late Aus inf was in for Pacific from the good ol days of OOB Pac, earlier types have been requested for use in the more recent Allied DLCs.

Granted, but the ease with which those units could have been added is now apparent to me, now that I have a units.csv file of my own and I did the additions on my own.

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I am also going to fill out the Australian Commandos and Engineers. I feel ... godlike.

[Erik2]

Horst, I'm using your Tweaks & Fixes files.
Bru, I have replaced the vanilla units.csv with your sorted version.
This is on my Slitherine installation, I keep my Steam installation vanilla for multiplayer games.
Thanks to you both.

Erik