Medieval French

[timurilenk]

I am giving somebody a practice game on Thursday against HYW English.


I thought I would try our Medieval French and am playing around with a list:

1 IC + 3 TC

6 BG of 4 Superior Kn
1 BG of 6 MF crossbows
1 BG 12 Mob

What do you think?

Will this have a chance or should I drop[ some knights for filler?

Thanks

Ian

[madcam2us]

Not sure if the below will show up as intended, but this is what I'm considering giving a go.,...


1 Ribauds, pillards, peasant levies MB Poor Undrilled Unprotected - - - - 8
2 Spanish Xbow LF Average Undrilled Unprotected Crossbow - - - 6
3 French Archers MF Poor Undrilled Unprotected Longbow - - - 4
4 French Men-at-Arms Kn Average Undrilled Heavily Armoured - Lancer Swordsmen - 4
5 French Men-at-Arms Kn Average Undrilled Heavily Armoured - Lancer Swordsmen - 4
6 French Xbow MF Average Undrilled Protected Crossbow - - - 6
7 French Xbow MF Average Undrilled Protected Crossbow - - - 6
8 Voulgiers HF Average Drilled Armoured - - Heavy Weapon - 8
9 Mercenary men-at-arms Kn Average Drilled Heavily Armoured - Lancer Swordsmen - 4
10 Scottish Archers MF Average Undrilled Protected Longbow - Swordsmen - 8
11 Scottish Archers MF Average Undrilled Protected Longbow - Swordsmen - 8
12 Scottish men-at-arms HF Average Undrilled Armoured - - Heavy Weapon - 6
- - - - - - - - -
IC - - - - - - C-in-C 1
TC - - - - - - - 2
Scottish Allied General TC - - - - - - Ally General 1



Madcam.

[timurilenk]

Thanks for the list Madcam.

I guess we are at opposite ends of the spectrum!

For me the French are about the superior knights - I fear I might have over done it and should add some filler. Your version seems to have taken the opposite approach and made it something of a combined arms army.

Are you intending to use your knights dismounted?

Ian

[christospap]

Hey everyone,

Here is the list that I have found suits my game style. It follows the same approach as Madcam's, however it avoids using 4s of Average Knights (especially because it used to, and got beaten everytime).

6 Average Protected Undrilled Crossbows
8 Poor Protected Drilled Crossbows
6 Average Armored Drilled Heavy Weapon Voulgiers
8 Average Heavily Armored Undrilled Heavy Weapon Scotts
6 Average Protected Undrilled Swordsmen
4 Poor Unprotected Undrilled French Longbowmen
6 Average Protected Undrilled Scottish Longbow-Swordsmen
6 Average Protected Undrilled Swordsmen
6 Average Protected Undrilled Scottish Longbow-Swordsmen
6 Average Unprotected Undrilled LF Spanish Crossbowmen
4 Average Armoured Undrilled Lancer-Swordsmen Cavalry
4 Superior Heavily Armoured Undrilled Lancer-Swordsmen Knights
4 Superior Heavily Armoured Undrilled Lancer-Swordsmen Knights

I usually accompany all that with a decent amount of terrain, leaving the open spaces for my Knights and HF.

Again, this suits my gameplay and my need to have some kind of response against the widest possible range of foes.

[timurilenk]

Again, this suits my gameplay and my need to have some kind of response against the widest possible range of foes.

I guess I am in a minority then.

You are both probably right, the notion of an army almost entirely of Kn S is perhaps too romantic or fool hardy - I must admit 8 BGs total in the army is not so much!

I will try to pen a list later that comes more in your direction.

Ian

[grahambriggs]

Again, this suits my gameplay and my need to have some kind of response against the widest possible range of foes.

I guess I am in a minority then.

You are both probably right, the notion of an army almost entirely of Kn S is perhaps too romantic or fool hardy - I must admit 8 BGs total in the army is not so much!

I will try to pen a list later that comes more in your direction.

Ian

I would try yours first and see how it works - it moight be the new wonder army. I'm not sure what value the IC adds though - if it were me I'd take all TCs and perhaps you could then afford some more filler.

[dave_r]

I think that the French army should be based around Superior Knights. I have tried the Scottish allies with longbow, but they haven't worked The purpose of the Generals in a french army is to fight - there is no need for an IC

Here is my latest iteration

4 x TC's
5 x 4 Superior Knights, Undrilled, Heavily Armoured, Lancer, Swordsmen
1x6 MF, Crossbow, Protected, Average, Undrilled, Crossbow
1x8 Mob, Poor
1x4 Cavalry, Armoured, Average, Undrilled, Lancer, Swordsmen
1x6 LF, Average, Undrilled, Unprotected, Crossbow
1x4 MF, Poor, Undrilled, Unprotected, Longbow
1x6 LF, Average, Undrilled, Unprotected, Javelin, Light Spear
1x2 Light Artillery

800 points on the nose with 12 BG's

[madcam2us]

Thanks for the list Madcam.

I guess we are at opposite ends of the spectrum!

For me the French are about the superior knights - I fear I might have over done it and should add some filler. Your version seems to have taken the opposite approach and made it something of a combined arms army.

Are you intending to use your knights dismounted?

Ian

Depends, obviously on the opponent. But yes, I chose them average in order to save points and still get to dismount as supeior HF.

I think the Serbs would do better as a Kn heavy list as they get loads of lance armed LH and shed loads of bow armed LF.

with only 8 BGs you don't need 4 generals.

Madcam.

[vercingetorix]

hello timurilenk,

You are correct in saying that the superior knights are the biggest strength of the french, and depening on who you face, this list could work.

Are you building this army to face a particular opponent, because if you brought this list against 100 year war english, you would probably be slaughtered.

Automatically, I would suggest going up to 8 bases of xbow and getting the 8 volgiurs.

[timurilenk]

Thanks all for the input, I think my list is too brittle with just 8 BGs

I like your list Dave, though I am thinking of going average and dismounting.

Ian

[Ghaznavid]

Here is my latest iteration

4 x TC's
5 x 4 Superior Knights, Undrilled, Heavily Armoured, Lancer, Swordsmen
1x6 MF, Crossbow, Protected, Average, Undrilled, Crossbow
1x8 Mob, Poor
1x4 Cavalry, Armoured, Average, Undrilled, Lancer, Swordsmen
1x6 LF, Average, Undrilled, Unprotected, Crossbow
1x4 MF, Poor, Undrilled, Unprotected, Longbow
1x6 LF, Average, Undrilled, Unprotected, Javelin, Light Spear
1x2 Light Artillery

I think that list isn't valid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the LF with Javelin looks like Bidets, which are available only before 1400, the Cv however is only available after 1400.

[timurilenk]

I am now going for the opposite extreme and going for foot:

CIC IC - - - - - - CinC 1
Sub General TC - - - - - - - 2
Scots Ally General TC - - - - - - Ally general 1
Ribauds, pillards, peasant levy Mob Unprotected Poor Undrilled - - - - 12
Bidets LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 4
Scottish archers MF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Longbow - Swordmen - 4
Scottish archers MF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Longbow - Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
Voulgiers HF Armoured Average Drilled - Heavy weapon Heavy weapon - 6
Scottish men-at arms HF Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Heavy weapon Heavy weapon - 4
Scottish men-at arms HF Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Heavy weapon Heavy weapon - 4
French crossbowmen MF Protected Average Undrilled Crossbow - - - 6

The game is tonight - I will see what happens

Ian

[dave_r]

I think that list isn't valid

Erm, so it isn't... Next Iteration:

4 x TC's
5 x 4 Superior Knights, Undrilled, Heavily Armoured, Lancer, Swordsmen
1x6 MF, Crossbow, Protected, Average, Undrilled, Crossbow
1x6 MF, Crossbow, Protected, Poor, Undrilled, Crossbow
1x8 Mob, Poor
1x4 Cavalry, Armoured, Average, Undrilled, Lancer, Swordsmen
1x4 LF, Average, Undrilled, Unprotected, Crossbow
1x4 MF, Poor, Undrilled, Unprotected, Longbow
1x2 Light Artillery

796 points at 12 BG's

[Ghaznavid]

Bidets LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 4
Voulgiers HF Armoured Average Drilled - Heavy weapon Heavy weapon - 6

Similar problem it appears, Bidets (only before 1400) and Voulgiers (only from 1400) can not be in the same list.

[dave_r]

I would also question that you have 13 BG's, but four are allied - leaving 9 BG's with three generals.

I have tried the Scots on numerous occasions, but the average troops with one general who cannot be commited to combat means they are a liability. Even the four Heavily Armoured Heavy Weapons Guys.

[madcam2us]

larger BGs for the Scots to offset their "average-ness" even if this means less total BGs helps mitigate the lone commander, IMO.

Madcam.

[christospap]

I would also question that you have 13 BG's, but four are allied - leaving 9 BG's with three generals.

I have tried the Scots on numerous occasions, but the average troops with one general who cannot be commited to combat means they are a liability. Even the four Heavily Armoured Heavy Weapons Guys.

That's true in my case Dave, and it actually has been tricky using the allied general effectively, since he has to take care of troops that I rarely use in the same area of the battlefield (the slow heavy fighters work best for me in the center, unlike the longbowmen).

The only remedy I have found is to field the longbows late enough, facing a convenient enemy or covering a suitable part of the battlefield (as far as terrain goes), thus diminishing the possibility of needing the general with the longbows, and so I have him join the heavy weapons.

Christos

[timurilenk]

Thanks for all the help - I have made larger BGs of Scots and got rid of the IC - I am going to use the list below now:

CIC TC - - - - - - CinC 1
Sub General TC - - - - - - - 2
Scots Ally General TC - - - - - - Ally general 1
Ribauds, pillards, peasant levy Mob Unprotected Poor Undrilled - - - - 12
French crossbowmen MF Protected Average Undrilled Crossbow - - - 6
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
Volgiers HF Armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 8
Scottish men-at arms HF Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Heavy weapon Heavy weapon - 8
Scottish archers MF Protected Average Undrilled Longbow - Swordmen - 6
Scottish archers MF Protected Average Undrilled Longbow - Swordmen - 6

This should be enough HF for those pesky English

Ian

[timurilenk]

Post script:

Used the list below:

CIC TC - - - - - - CinC 1
Sub General TC - - - - - - - 2
Scots Ally General TC - - - - - - Ally general 1
Ribauds, pillards, peasant levy Mob Unprotected Poor Undrilled - - - - 8
Scottish archers MF Protected Average Undrilled Longbow - Swordmen - 6
Scottish archers MF Protected Average Undrilled Longbow - Swordmen - 6
Scottish men-at arms HF Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Heavy weapon Heavy weapon - 8
French crossbowmen MF Protected Average Undrilled Crossbow - - - 6
Volgiers HF Armoured Average Drilled - Heavy weapon Heavy weapon - 6
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
French men-at-arms Kn Heavily armoured Average Undrilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4

The one above was incorrect.

Managed to get a fairly open table but with some Enclosed fields just in my half of the table. the Scottish longbows went in there to benefit from cover in the bow fight.

The HF went down in the middle butted up to this and walked through the English et Voila!!

The list was good against English, not so sure it would fare well against a variety of opponents though.

Thanks to all who helped in moving me from my initial thought of a massed superior Knight charge to this option.

Looks like the rules work as they should historically for these armies - nice to know!!

Ian

[dave_r]

Since the majority of later lists comprise some Superior Knights I would be interested to see how you fare against a more "typical" medieval army, rather than beating up innocent defenceless Longbowmen