AT support fail?

[Kerensky]

Ha - I forget you're not actually one of the devs. On a completely separate topic, was the fallweis scenario one of yours?

Nope can't take credit for that one.

[nexusno2000]

The reason AT units don't support other AT units is the same reason Fighters don't support other Fighters units.

If you think of it like that, it makes sense.
No one ever questions or ask why fighters don't escort fighters, do they?

Arty supports arty because suppression based support isn't very harmful. Annoying, but not deadly. Direct damage support fire is absolutely lethal.

I would prefer ATY not to support ATY. Yes, it's mostly suppression, but it's inconsistent. If AT can't support AT, and Ftr can't support Ftr, it's more streamlined and intuitive at ATY can't support ATY. I'm sure this will never change, but my opinion on the matter remains unchanged.

There are some really wonky interactions... my 15 cm will support my StuG if it is attacked by inf, but not if attacked by a tank. My 15 cm will support my other 15 cm against anything. It's even more fun if you mix in switchable units. I mean, it works, but it isn't super easy to understand.

[Horseman]

Ha - I forget you're not actually one of the devs. On a completely separate topic, was the fallweis scenario one of yours?

Nope can't take credit for that one.

Ah. Thought there was a touch of Kerensky in that one. Obviously not!

[KesaAnna]

How all of this is working out in practice , at least in my eccentric case ( ? ) , goes like this ;

I buy pioneers , 15cm arty , Stuka's , cheap AA guns , fighters , and the tank with the biggest gun that I can reasonably afford , and learn to love them , regardless of what I thought of them prior to my introduction to Panzercorps 2 , because they work .

I buy , and learn to love , one unit of Ju 88 , and one unit of Nebelwerfer , because , despite their drawbacks , they are killer in what they do. If I can bring a Nebelwerfer and a Ju 88 to bare on dug in infantry in a city , I reckon , a priori , that unit of dug in infantry is as good as beaten.

I buy and learn to love the Messerschmidt 110 because it is just too cheap to pass up. " Compromise " is usually a dirty word , but the Me 110 , like I said , is the compromise you just cannot pass up.


I DON'T buy Sturmpanzers , or any other kind of artillery except 15cm's , I DON'T buy mountain infantry , grenadiers , cavalry , etc , and learn to overlook any love I had for them prior to Panzercorps 2 , because they simply aren't worth the price tag / core slot.


And then there is AT . Before Panzercorps 2 , SPAT was my favorite German weapons system. But in Panzercorps 2 , buying AT is like buying the insurance policy you buy for the Alfa Romeo sports car you do love.
You don't love the insurance policy , you don't really want the insurance policy , but you dare not buy it.

So , AT turns out to be the one unit you DO buy , but DO NOT love or want.

[impar]

This still bothers me.

The AT tooltip should be corrected to avoid the current confusion.

And, an ART that offers hard support should offer fire support to an adjacent friendly AT attacked by a hard type enemy.
Not offering it makes no sense.

[Horseman]

This still bothers me.

The AT tooltip should be corrected to avoid the current confusion.

And, an ART that offers hard support should offer fire support to an adjacent friendly AT attacked by a hard type enemy.
Not offering it makes no sense.

Agreed - the rule becomes simply - AT units do not support other AT units. And keeps artillery consistent with when they support.

[impar]

Yep. This still bothers me.

ART, being indirect fire, should offer support to AT units, if it has the correct ability.

And, an ART that offers hard support should offer fire support to an adjacent friendly AT attacked by a hard type enemy.
Not offering it makes no sense.

[Bee1976]

Well AT Guns provide a huge amount of initiative. So they will fire at first in most times. And they are super-hard targets. If you would be able to provide artillery support, they would be simply indestructible for ground forces. And the complete AT system would need a rework.
In early and midwar you simply dont need AT Guns at all, 2 15cm Guns will protect each other and do a better job. In late war, At guns are so powerful, that they need a "flaw".

If you really want to support your At guns you can use a provocateur hero on an adjacent unit. a triangle made of infantry with prov hero, 15cm gun and an At gun will spread a lot of havoc.

[DefiantXYX]

Well, one more time the system makes sense, but no in every year of the war. 1936 - 1942 antitank units are rather week, their support fire is almost nothing and you should always use tanks instead. Later, when you get nashorn, elephants and crazy stuff the rule is fine.
I like to play with panzerjaeger and stuff and sometimes they just get killed by tanks, since they are just stronger and you cant really protect your "antitanks".
There could be two kinds of antitanks, maybe "light" and "heavy" antitanks. Light antitanks can be protected by other antitanks, heavy one can receive support fire.