ok so tonight i'll be trialing the following list
3 x TC
3 x 4 cav arm, sup, dlld, bow, sword - ghilmen
3 x 4 LH unp, ave, und bow, sword- turkomans
2 x 4 LH unp, ave, und, lancer, sword- bedouin
2x 6hf + 3 lf poor adath spear + bow formation
1 x crusader ally gen- TC
1 x 6 kn, h arm, sup und, lancer, sword- crusaders
1 x 4 hf arm, und, ave def spear
1 x 4 mf ptf, und, ave cbw
any tactics advice vs tartars?
cheers
Ben
syrian city states
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Re: syrian city states
benos wrote:ok so tonight i'll be trialing the following list
3 x TC
3 x 4 cav arm, sup, dlld, bow, sword - ghilmen
3 x 4 LH unp, ave, und bow, sword- turkomans
2 x 4 LH unp, ave, und, lancer, sword- bedouin
2x 6hf + 3 lf poor adath spear + bow formation
1 x crusader ally gen- TC
1 x 6 kn, h arm, sup und, lancer, sword- crusaders
1 x 4 hf arm, und, ave def spear
1 x 4 mf ptf, und, ave cbw
any tactics advice vs tartars?
cheers
Ben
Maybe change the poor HF for some LF, you'll be outnubered in LH by the Tarters by at least 2 to 1 in BG's, what they will try and do is force your knights to charge all round the table leaving them open to attacks by a number of LH shooting at them. Either that or they will just ignore them and go for your Syrians. Spears in BG of fours is risky likewise the crossbows.
BTW I think you may have less than 800 points if i've counted correctly.
Keep us informed of how you get on.
syrians
well it was a pretty conclusive victory!
lost the pre-battle initiaive, most of the terrain slid off the table and played no part, managed to get both flanks of the knights covered with ghilmen, and advanced them rapidly with generals, (plus the bedouin , which i had a second battle group of to make up the points) very aggreassively on one flank , while the poor spear threatened the other, once the knights hit some double ranked cavalry things started to go downhill for my opponent.
lessons, the poor spear make a good roadblock, they are even at impact and even or better in melee while steady , with a general and rear support they can be awkward to shift.
the crusader ally makes this list a bit more interesting, the knights in a 6 with both the other battlegroups hidden away (i lost the crossbows when i brought them out to shoot and the rapidly fell to fragmented)
moving first was a huge advantage here as it allowed me to move a lot of my force up to pin the enemy in place, allowing the knights to hit something fairly solid, the bedouin are pretty good against other light horse if they can get into combat, lance makes a big difference, and using a general helped here.
not sure how this army would cope with terrain, as there isn't much to use in difficult terrain.
order of march used was 1: spear blocks & crusader foot, 2: turcomans 3: bedouin and 1 ghilmen, 4 other ghilmen and knights
will definitly give this army another game or two, does seem to have some interesting options.
Ben
lost the pre-battle initiaive, most of the terrain slid off the table and played no part, managed to get both flanks of the knights covered with ghilmen, and advanced them rapidly with generals, (plus the bedouin , which i had a second battle group of to make up the points) very aggreassively on one flank , while the poor spear threatened the other, once the knights hit some double ranked cavalry things started to go downhill for my opponent.
lessons, the poor spear make a good roadblock, they are even at impact and even or better in melee while steady , with a general and rear support they can be awkward to shift.
the crusader ally makes this list a bit more interesting, the knights in a 6 with both the other battlegroups hidden away (i lost the crossbows when i brought them out to shoot and the rapidly fell to fragmented)
moving first was a huge advantage here as it allowed me to move a lot of my force up to pin the enemy in place, allowing the knights to hit something fairly solid, the bedouin are pretty good against other light horse if they can get into combat, lance makes a big difference, and using a general helped here.
not sure how this army would cope with terrain, as there isn't much to use in difficult terrain.
order of march used was 1: spear blocks & crusader foot, 2: turcomans 3: bedouin and 1 ghilmen, 4 other ghilmen and knights
will definitly give this army another game or two, does seem to have some interesting options.
Ben
Re: syrians
How did you manage to hit drilled cavalry in two ranks when your opponent can expand as a simple move and evade any chargebenos wrote:well it was a pretty conclusive victory!
lost the pre-battle initiaive, most of the terrain slid off the table and played no part, managed to get both flanks of the knights covered with ghilmen, and advanced them rapidly with generals, (plus the bedouin , which i had a second battle group of to make up the points) very aggreassively on one flank , while the poor spear threatened the other, once the knights hit some double ranked cavalry things started to go downhill for my opponent.
Ben
Re: syrians
Only if someone charges you. since your fighting a LH army they should'nt have done that.benos wrote: the poor spear make a good roadblock, they are even at impact Ben
Re: syrians
How did you manage to pin a LH army, that should have outnumbered you LH BG's and all I do is move backwards if pinned or throw a CMT to move back three MU and still shoot should I want to move away.benos wrote:
moving first was a huge advantage here as it allowed me to move a lot of my force up to pin the enemy in place
Ben
syrians
not all the cavalry were in 4's , 6's are hard to move out of fighting formation, (note this is only our third game, so not all our choices will be optimal yet :-/ )
the tartars get no troops with a POA at impact, since the spears don't get a POA when charging this is evens , or have i missed somthing
finally by moving rapidly accross a mostly open table the tartars had to either fight or loose the baggage quickly, might have been worth letting the baggage go , but that wasn't the choice made.
also i had the better of the luck over the game, so i accept the win shouldn't have been so overwhelming, however i think this army can cope with a steppe army passably well, and will cause some damage on average luck even if it looses, while having a useful chance against some other armies, though it's lack of rough going troops may be a worry.
the Seljuks probably are better though
Ben
the tartars get no troops with a POA at impact, since the spears don't get a POA when charging this is evens , or have i missed somthing
finally by moving rapidly accross a mostly open table the tartars had to either fight or loose the baggage quickly, might have been worth letting the baggage go , but that wasn't the choice made.
also i had the better of the luck over the game, so i accept the win shouldn't have been so overwhelming, however i think this army can cope with a steppe army passably well, and will cause some damage on average luck even if it looses, while having a useful chance against some other armies, though it's lack of rough going troops may be a worry.
the Seljuks probably are better though
Ben
Re: syrians
benos wrote:not all the cavalry were in 4's , 6's are hard to move out of fighting formation, (note this is only our third game, so not all our choices will be optimal yet :-/ )
the tartars get no troops with a POA at impact, since the spears don't get a POA when charging this is evens , or have i missed somthing
finally by moving rapidly accross a mostly open table the tartars had to either fight or loose the baggage quickly, might have been worth letting the baggage go , but that wasn't the choice made.
also i had the better of the luck over the game, so i accept the win shouldn't have been so overwhelming, however i think this army can cope with a steppe army passably well, and will cause some damage on average luck even if it looses, while having a useful chance against some other armies, though it's lack of rough going troops may be a worry.
the Seljuks probably are better though
Ben
To be honest I only play with a steppe army well at lease 99% of the time, so I am interested in how people face them.
Your right the Tartars don't have a POA against your foot, the whole idea is to get in line shoot you from 4 inchs away your poor foot are protected needing 4's to hit as his cavalry would be superior re roll ones in any CT you'd re-roll 6's. Once disrupted the Armoured Cavalry Superior Bow/Sword are quite tough.
Losing the baggage is a rare event if fighting as LH Army you'd outnumber the enemies LH and to be honest if foot managed to get there you'd deserve it. The only time I have lost mine is against a better played Shooty Cavalry army, or whenever I play Hammy/Dave R and no doubt after tomorrow night Spike will be added to the list, at least not played Phil yet
. To be honest I don't use 6's in BG's with either LH Bow or Cavalry Bow, when I use a 6 is if I use Seljik Turks and have Bediun LH Lance in 6's to chase away other LH.
If your happy with your army choice thats the fun of FOG take an army you like and will use even if beaten it sounds corney but its true. I do like LH shooty armies I am still learning how to handle them correctly but I do like learning whatever you do enjoy the game.
Dave
syrians
I have to agree the foot are walking targets if they go disrupted, i kept 1 general with the two battle groups to make them at least seem a threat (plus they them move up pretty quickly early in the game, 4 troop commanders made this army much more effective)
so far my tactics against the steppe armies with this army are a) hope to get the first move and advance aggressively makeing room to manouver harder to use,
b) make sure i am posing threats with several battle groups at a time, the bedouin operating in a pair, the knights and the Ghilmen (or 2 at least in a battle line) are all troops that need to be worried about as they are fairly fast and hit hard, the bedouin will struggle against the cavalry, but are nasty against the light horse, the other 2 are tough against bowfire and reasonable in combat. add the general sped spear blocks (which need dealing with and at 33 points a battle group they don't use up much of my force) as a potential threat. since pretty much everything else will need to either hide or protect the baggage, it can be a threat.
things i would wory about. : knights being dragged all over the place, yes its pretty obvious but it is the biggest worry for a key strike force,
the Bedouin not geting enough milage in the impact phase, they need a good impact phase to get the edge in the melee phase, they can be a bit risky.
finally not sure how this army will cope with a flank march, if it is only light horse it may manage to threaten them with the crusader foot, if any cavalry joins i need a very lucky shooting phase from the crossbow or i'm going to probably loose the crossbows, my camp and probably the crusader spear.
I think the Steppe army should just have the edge on this army, but it has a better chance against a solid roman or spearwall army due to the knights and infantry .
Ben
so far my tactics against the steppe armies with this army are a) hope to get the first move and advance aggressively makeing room to manouver harder to use,
b) make sure i am posing threats with several battle groups at a time, the bedouin operating in a pair, the knights and the Ghilmen (or 2 at least in a battle line) are all troops that need to be worried about as they are fairly fast and hit hard, the bedouin will struggle against the cavalry, but are nasty against the light horse, the other 2 are tough against bowfire and reasonable in combat. add the general sped spear blocks (which need dealing with and at 33 points a battle group they don't use up much of my force) as a potential threat. since pretty much everything else will need to either hide or protect the baggage, it can be a threat.
things i would wory about. : knights being dragged all over the place, yes its pretty obvious but it is the biggest worry for a key strike force,
the Bedouin not geting enough milage in the impact phase, they need a good impact phase to get the edge in the melee phase, they can be a bit risky.
finally not sure how this army will cope with a flank march, if it is only light horse it may manage to threaten them with the crusader foot, if any cavalry joins i need a very lucky shooting phase from the crossbow or i'm going to probably loose the crossbows, my camp and probably the crusader spear.
I think the Steppe army should just have the edge on this army, but it has a better chance against a solid roman or spearwall army due to the knights and infantry .
Ben