GC43 Oboyan and Oboyan D prestige rewards

[PanzerTum]

These last few days I have had the pleasure of trying to get a DV in Oboyan.
Playing on General level, nothing fancy, still a rather hard scenario.
My first time I succeeded in getting a DV by replacing 4 lost core units with Tigers and Panthers. It was very expensive on repairs and replacements however so I tried the level a second time.
While the first advances until Oboyan went a lot smoother I got totally thrashed around Oboyan with more than 7 core units lost and a marginal victory to boot.

For this MV I only got 2500 prestige instead of the expected 4000.
It seems that there are 2 levels of Oboyan, one that is selected when Yakovlevo results in a DV and another one when Yakovlevo does not result in a DV.
The DV path leads to lower prestige rewards in Oboyan than the MV/Loss path does which I find strange.

What is the thinking behind this? I don't like taking an MV when it isn't absolutely necessary (like maybe in Oboyan itself).
I assume that apart from the prestige awards the OboyanD and Oboyan scenarios are identical but at the moment I do not know that for sure.

[turn4441]

The DV prestige is larger in Oboyan D than Oboyan while the MV/Loss rewards are smaller. Near as I can tell, the two scenarios are identical. I assume it's just an easier way to get different briefings, prestige allotments, and the chance to play the Kursk Armory scenario if you get DVs on both Yakovlevo and Oboyan D. This gives a chance for more prestige, increased unit experience and a chance to capture a few KV-85s before you have to kill ~200 Russian units at Prokhorovka.

The prestige amounts are the same for the scenarios in the Ponyri side of the '43 East tree and there are also two versions (although again the same) of Olkhovatka.

Prestige amounts vary and often reflect the amount of losses/damage you are expected to take given the different outcomes. From a prestige standpoint, it is frequently better to take a loss than a MV unless it ends your campaign. However, it will usually result in less prestige gained from taking objectives and less experience gained.

Another fact regarding prestige is that you can get a relative idea of scenario difficulty (or the number/quality of units you'll face) by whether or not you get per turn prestige and how much. For example, Prokhorovka is 200/turn. Enjoy!

[allophyl]

Oboyan is a tough one, it took me a couple of tries to get a DV

I would suggest not assaulting Oboyan head-on, as attacking an entrenched enemy across a river is a death sentence, especially when they have such heavy AA

I highly suggest using a bridge engineer to cross the Psel early in the scenario and send a sizeable group of units across to assault Oboyan from the rear. Having your western contingent cross as well once it reaches the Psel on the other side of the city will allow you to flank it from both sides. Your middle group should be a lot smaller than the other two, really just enough to clear the towns up to the river and then park there, out of range of the russian artillery. The middle group shouldn't get involved in the assault until they're able to attack without heavy losses

[PanzerTum]

I played Oboyan 4 times before I was more or less satisfied..

the first time I lost 4 core units which I replaced with 2 tigers & 2 panthers and was able to obtain a DV with crossings on both sides. The northeasterm Russian armoured force did not react until it was too late



So the second time I used more tigers & panthers, crossed on the east, the west crossing did not really succeed. The Russians in the northeast attacked much sooner though. not a clean effort, i lost 7 core units and abandoned the attempt.

Third attempt I only used the central bridges to cross which more or less worked, still I lost an experienced Pioniere and much damage to the luftwaffe.

The fourth attempt I reasoned that I might avoid the northeastern Russian force by only crossing west plus a central attack.
Especially the western bridge is good to cross. Put a tiger on the bridge with enough artillery behind it and it is relatively save. Take out the pill box with the tiger and soften up any units that might cripple your city armour. Move in experienced infantry like Oleh Dir or a good Grenadiere in when possible.
The western crossing can take out defensive AA and artillery.
The northeastern Russian force was triggered though so I had to screen them off from Oboyan as best as I could.



This last attempt I used to continue to Kursk. In Kursk I only collected the 2 KV-85's. Apart form the Russian air force the Russians hardly attack you at all if you don't attack them, so It was a peaceful level with little damage.

So now I am in Prohkorovka, surprised in the south-east which tied me down for too long. I thought i was doing well until I saw that I was almost out of turns. So need to restart that one as well. Takeaways from try one: Smaller force in northwest. South east either only a holding force or clear the area out quickly before crossing. And prevent the 5th guard army from trying to outflank me..

[rubyjuno]

I've just finished GC43E and over the course of this campaign my thoughts about DV/MV have changed. As the Soviets have started to offer more resistance, I have realised that sometimes the cost in units (and therefore prestige) to push for a DV is simply not worth it. When I first started playing PzC, it was a matter of pride to get a DV every time (not to mention easier in those early years), it was a case of check the objectives, split my force into battle groups, and go for it, replaying scenarios if I had to. Towards the end of GC43E, there are some defensive scenarios, much like Bagration in the base game. I've learned that strategy that works for me is to find an area of the map that is defendable, and pull my units back to there and dig in. Later on, I might send a group round the Soviet forces in an attempt to flank them, capturing any city/airfield hexes on the way. Of course, there is sometimes a nasty surprise waiting somewhere! When my main defence has thinned out the Soviet attack, I will attempt to move forward and retake objectives. Sometimes this leads to A DV, sometimes an MV. I even took a loss once to avoid the heavy losses an MV/DV would cause, but this earlier in GC43E (it was one where the next scenario was the same regardless of result). While it's always interesting to try different tactics to gain a different outcome (and I've enjoyed reading about PanzerTum's attempts), I think I've got to the point where I want to finish the GC so I can play some other DLCs (I've only played Afrika Korps so far) and some of the many excellent mods I've tried but not finished. I wasted my time a bit at the start, playing the base game, AK and up to GC42 on General before deciding to change to FM and play them all again. My time to play PzC is limited, and as I march towards my 60th birthday I find that I cannot stare at my laptop screen for too long before I need a break...

[PanzerTum]

Well to be honest I just started Afrika Korps as well even though GC43E is still at Prohkorovka.
I also have the feeling that there is so much more to be explored in the game, both official DLC's as well as mods.
All of which will take a lot of time.

In the beginning I abandoned the vanilla campaign after Norway because that was just too much like PG and seemed like a waste of time with so much else waiting for me.

I'm nowhere near 60 yet (58 ) but I already noticed that it does not make much sense to play when tired or unfocussed.
I guess all the PG players of yore have reached a certain age where, if wisdom has not arrived yet, chances of it still doing so are slim..

[heinzrondorf]

Towards the end of GC43E, there are some defensive scenarios, much like Bagration in the base game. I've learned that strategy that works for me is to find an area of the map that is defendable, and pull my units back to there and dig in. Later on, I might send a group round the Soviet forces in an attempt to flank them, capturing any city/airfield hexes on the way. Of course, there is sometimes a nasty surprise waiting somewhere! When my main defence has thinned out the Soviet attack, I will attempt to move forward and retake objectives.

This is a very good strategy that will serve you well in many scenarios in GC43-45E. Rather than facing the soviets out in the open and get outnumbered it is better to set up a defensive perimeter around your main victory hex(s), dig in, and use the terrain to your advantage, backed up by artillery etc and let them come to you. Just make sure you have at least one airfield as part of your perimeter so your planes have somewhere to refuel.

Then, depending on the scenario but usually 1/3 or 1/2 into the total turns, when the soviets have been decimated, you can if you want go on the counter offensive and recapture the victory hexes you need to get the DV.