Next WTC

[XLegione]

Dear players, the organizers decided to postpone to better moments the new edition of WTC.
There are not the conditions to arrange the national teams tournament this year.
This is the result of the historical moment we are living and the will to avoid any possible frictions or too emotive situation.
For this reason the poll is locked and archived. Common sense above all and respect for the community.

Have a good summer.

Ciao
XLegione

[heidipie]

grazie

[Lynx57]

What a pity.

[deeter]

I agree with the organizers. Oddly, despite being a wargame, nationalism seems out of place here.

Deeter

[ericdoman1]

I am against the conflict but I feel it is slightly unfair, postponing something because of it.

In last season's TDC, one player out of 91 (including that player) did not play because he was against the concept of playing against ....We have no knowledge if players are involved with the conflict OR if they may have lost their loved ones, both sides and more.

Other tournaments have been running with to my knowledge, no problems

The WTC is an ideal platform to show a large proportion of the world uniting in a friendly competition.

Worst case scenario would be for X to not have a team but some of their players could possibly play for Europe or a ROTW team.

This is just FOG II there are numerous competitions being played with again no problems, to my knowledge

[kronenblatt]

The difference to other FoG tournaments and campaigns is that the WTC explicitly adds the national team dimension.

And with some players (like me) being in favour of allowing all to participate, independent of nationality, as their own teams, and with some players instead being in favour of disallowing a Russian team and some (?) even disallowing Russian players from participating, it’s destined to be (and already is) a lot of debate, not necessarily constructive.

So better then, for the time being, to keep the national aspects out of it and let everyone play whoever they like, as individuals in friendlies or organised tournaments and campaigns. And let everyone refrain from playing whoever they don’t like, through not participating. Everyone’s own choice.

Above all, let’s do our utmost to keep this community of casual FoG players (who just happen to be of certain nationalities, domiciles, etc.) friendly and free from politics.

After all, the love for FoG (a computer game, not more serious than that! ) unites us all, globally. Love to you all!

[ericdoman1]

The difference to other FoG tournaments and campaigns is that the WTC explicitly adds the national team dimension.

And with some players (like me) being in favour of allowing all to participate, independent of nationality, as their own teams, and with some players instead being in favour of disallowing a Russian team and some (?) even disallowing Russian players from participating, it’s destined to be (and already is) a lot of debate, not necessarily constructive.

So better then, for the time being, to keep the national aspects out of it and let everyone play whoever they like, as individuals in friendlies or organised tournaments and campaigns. And let everyone refrain from playing whoever they don’t like, through not participating. Everyone’s own choice.

Above all, let’s do our utmost to keep this community of casual FoG players (who just happen to be of certain nationalities, domiciles, etc.) friendly and free from politics.

After all, the love for FoG (a computer game, not more serious than that! ) unites us all, globally. Love to you all!

I strongly believe in togetherness, peace, love, harmony, I'm a nerdy hippy really:)

Yes but a team of 4 or maybe 5 players not like a football squad of 30 players and probably 100+ staff.

At the moment there are 2 Russian players playing, so they couldn't field a team or as is the case in numerous sports, DO not allow a Russian team (OF 4 or 5!!!!!) to play/participate.

So what about the 100+ players who want to participate but can't because there is a Russian team or in this case no Russian team.

We also know the guys who play, prior to and during the conflict, they are genuinely good people so I find that unfair as well.

"some players instead being in favour of disallowing a Russian team and some (?) even disallowing Russian players from participating" - Whom. I only know of 1 player who resigned because he did not want to play. Also I believe that the majority of players do not know who the Russian players are and probably don't care anyways. If somebody is preventing Russian players from participating in a competition. I would like to know, as I would certainly not want to take part in the same competition.

Anyways I have sent Stefano an email and private message to find out more?

[kronenblatt]

Well, the initial poll probably caused much of the controversy since it had only two options: the first with national teams (but, as I understood it, disallowing Russian teams) and the second without national teams at all, just teams in general. So rather limited choices. But the first option actually seemed to have gotten the most votes (if I remember correctly) until the poll got closed down. And then were some debate thereafter in the poll thread, so not really clear-cut or simple.

(As mentioned, I’m all for allowing everyone to form national teams if they want to, but don’t think everyone is, based on the above and from what I’ve read. But in general I don’t think national teams is a good idea at all, since it just divides and not unites, with political and linguistic barriers.)

I thought you’re among the “organisers” in the first post deciding to postpone the WTC, Eric?

[ericdoman1]

I helped big time in starting it up but left during it.

I never even knew there was a poll. Is there a link for this. I am gobsmacked if players decided to postpone it. The players I am playing against all seem in favour of the WTC and find it strange that it is postponed. As you know Andreas I play a lot of players? Hence the surprise about the poll. How would we know about it? Was there a pm sent out etc. I am regularly on the FOG II forum and I didn't see it.

[kronenblatt]

I helped big time in starting it up but left during it.

I never even knew there was a poll. Is there a link for this. I am gobsmacked if players decided to postpone it. The players I am playing against all seem in favour of the WTC and find it strange that it is postponed. As you know Andreas I play a lot of players? Hence the surprise about the poll. How would we know about it? Was there a pm sent out etc. I am regularly on the FOG II forum and I didn't see it.

The opening post of this thread says: “… the organizers decided to postpone… “, not the players.

Also, “… the poll is locked and archived…”; Here’s a link to the posts in the dustbin:

https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 16#p974216

[stockwellpete]

Sorry, I have only just read this thread after taking a complete break from the game and I am now feeling a bit irritated. If you are going to exclude Russian players, or teams, because of Putin's depradations in Ukraine then why haven't you previously excluded American, British et al players and teams in response to the carnage caused by those countries across the world in recent decades? It smacks of double standards to me.

I think you should continue with your tournament as momentum and having a regular schedule that players can get used to is very important to its continuing success. It shouldn't be too difficult to come up with regional teams such as "The Americas", "Western Europe", "Central/Eastern Europe", "Eurasia" and "Anzacs" that are politically neutral and can give everyone the opportunity to play.

I am very surprised that Slitherine is allowing people to display Ukrainian flags and exhortations to "Stand with Ukraine" at the bottom of their posts. Stand with which Ukraine? With the ordinary citizens of Ukraine who are victims of this imperialist proxy war? Certainly, I stand with them as much as I stand with ethnic Russians living in the Donbass who have been intermittently bombed since 2014. With Zelensky and his oligarch chums who fund Ukrainian fascists such as Azov and Aidar and incorporate them into Ukrainian state structures and army? Certainly not, I do not stand with them at all.

I think the flags on this forum should come down.

[kronenblatt]

How about totally randomly forming teams from the pool of players signing up? Then it will be truly global, thus really World Team Championships, and players will get to get new friends within the community (in own team as well as other teams); people that they maybe never wouldn’t have come across.

[ericdoman1]

I was thinking about re-introducing the Companions Cup. Morbio created it and it consisted of UK & Ireland, Americas, Europe and ROTW.

Companions Cup

https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21504

This can be changed quite easily. It is a "themed" competition based on historical enemies. Teams as mentioned could be from anywhere. I think the first 20 or 30 players who entered, will be matched based on either TDC ELO ratings or completely randomly.

It does not have to be only 5 armies as well, it could be a dozen or more. I used to play in the National League, DBM and FOG I TT rulesets.

Ancient Period - For Example

The Wars for the Mediterranean

The theme for Campaign will be the conflicts surrounding access to and therefore control of the Mediterranean Sea across three time periods covered by the FoG rules
(or the war for the sunbeds and nice spots on the beach)

Any allies noted in the lists are allowed provided they are also allowed at that date

Period 1.

Period One – 525BC – Book 1
Armies listed below dated 525BC

Etruscan League, Early Roman and Latin
Italian Hill Tribes and Samnite League
Thracian
Classical Greek
Late Dynastic Egyptian
Early Achaemenid Persian
Early Carthaginian

Period Two – 1000AD – Book 2
Armies listed below dated 1000AD

Early Spanish
Andalusian
Muslim North Africa and Sicily
Later Abbasid, Tulunid and Ikshidid
Bedouin Dynasties
Nikeforian Byzantine
Fatamid Egyptian

Period Three – Book 3
Armies listed below dated 1351AD

Medieval Spanish
Italo Norman
Mamluk Egyptian
Ottoman Turk
Catalan Company
Condotta Italian
Serbian

[Sennacherib]

Sorry, I have only just read this thread after taking a complete break from the game and I am now feeling a bit irritated. If you are going to exclude Russian players, or teams, because of Putin's depradations in Ukraine then why haven't you previously excluded American, British et al players and teams in response to the carnage caused by those countries across the world in recent decades? It smacks of double standards to me.

I think you should continue with your tournament as momentum and having a regular schedule that players can get used to is very important to its continuing success. It shouldn't be too difficult to come up with regional teams such as "The Americas", "Western Europe", "Central/Eastern Europe", "Eurasia" and "Anzacs" that are politically neutral and can give everyone the opportunity to play.

I am very surprised that Slitherine is allowing people to display Ukrainian flags and exhortations to "Stand with Ukraine" at the bottom of their posts. Stand with which Ukraine? With the ordinary citizens of Ukraine who are victims of this imperialist proxy war? Certainly, I stand with them as much as I stand with ethnic Russians living in the Donbass who have been intermittently bombed since 2014. With Zelensky and his oligarch chums who fund Ukrainian fascists such as Azov and Aidar and incorporate them into Ukrainian state structures and army? Certainly not, I do not stand with them at all.

I think the flags on this forum should come down.

bravo ! i totally agree with you !

[XLegione]

Sorry, I have only just read this thread after taking a complete break from the game and I am now feeling a bit irritated. If you are going to exclude Russian players, or teams, because of Putin's depradations in Ukraine then why haven't you previously excluded American, British et al players and teams in response to the carnage caused by those countries across the world in recent decades? It smacks of double standards to me.

I think you should continue with your tournament as momentum and having a regular schedule that players can get used to is very important to its continuing success. It shouldn't be too difficult to come up with regional teams such as "The Americas", "Western Europe", "Central/Eastern Europe", "Eurasia" and "Anzacs" that are politically neutral and can give everyone the opportunity to play.

I am very surprised that Slitherine is allowing people to display Ukrainian flags and exhortations to "Stand with Ukraine" at the bottom of their posts. Stand with which Ukraine? With the ordinary citizens of Ukraine who are victims of this imperialist proxy war? Certainly, I stand with them as much as I stand with ethnic Russians living in the Donbass who have been intermittently bombed since 2014. With Zelensky and his oligarch chums who fund Ukrainian fascists such as Azov and Aidar and incorporate them into Ukrainian state structures and army? Certainly not, I do not stand with them at all.

I think the flags on this forum should come down.

Ciao Pete, I respect your opinions and your point of view, nevertheless there is an aggressor and a victim in this conflict. The invaders threat the Europe and the western side of the world every day, in particular your country (you are English if I remember well).
I don't close my eyes, I see every day what is happening in Ukraine and the level of the destruction and the killed innocent people.
I condemn the war and the governments that use it to resolve the international crisis, without any exception.

Have a good day, ciao

XLegione

[stockwellpete]

Ciao Pete, I respect your opinions and your point of view, nevertheless there is an aggressor and a victim in this conflict. The invaders threat the Europe and the western side of the world every day, in particular your country (you are English if I remember well).
I don't close my eyes, I see every day what is happening in Ukraine and the level of the destruction and the killed innocent people.
I condemn the war and the governments that use it to resolve the international crisis, without any exception.

Have a good day, ciao

XLegione

But this is still just an opinion, it is not a fact, Stefano. My opinion is that the biggest threat to UK "democracy" (what's left of it) is coming from the USA, not Russia. Quite frankly - I wish a plague on all imperialisms, be they Russian, American or Chinese.

Russia out of Ukraine! NATO out of Europe!

Perhaps I should put this slogan at the bottom of my posts in the interests of political balance? Seeing as the expression of political viewpoints now seems to be acceptable in a games forum.

[XLegione]

Ciao Pete, I respect your opinions and your point of view, nevertheless there is an aggressor and a victim in this conflict. The invaders threat the Europe and the western side of the world every day, in particular your country (you are English if I remember well).
I don't close my eyes, I see every day what is happening in Ukraine and the level of the destruction and the killed innocent people.
I condemn the war and the governments that use it to resolve the international crisis, without any exception.

Have a good day, ciao

XLegione

But this is still just an opinion, it is not a fact, Stefano. My opinion is that the biggest threat to UK "democracy" (what's left of it) is coming from the USA, not Russia. Quite frankly - I wish a plague on all imperialisms, be they Russian, American or Chinese.

Russia out of Ukraine! NATO out of Europe!

Perhaps I should put this slogan at the bottom of my posts in the interests of political balance? Seeing as the expression of political viewpoints now seems to be acceptable in a games forum.

Ciao Pete, I believe our way of thinking is not so far
Yesterday I have seen for the third time a very inspirational movie: "Nuremberg".
Some legal principles of the Nuremberg trial are absolute values for me:
crimes against peace, wars of aggression, crimes against humanity, and war crimes.

I thought in 2022 another war in Europe was impossible, common sense and the lesson of the history would have been enough reasons to avoid this tragedy.
Unfortunately I committed a great mistake, undervaluation of the human nature.

Will we see a better world? Probably no, I hope the next generations will have this opportunity.

Take care, ciao.

Stefano
XLegione

[stockwellpete]

Ciao Pete, I believe our way of thinking is not so far
Yesterday I have seen for the third time a very inspirational movie: "Nuremberg".
Some legal principles of the Nuremberg trial are absolute values for me:
crimes against peace, wars of aggression, crimes against humanity, and war crimes.

I thought in 2022 another war in Europe was impossible, common sense and the lesson of the history would have been enough reasons to avoid this tragedy.
Unfortunately I committed a great mistake, undervaluation of the human nature.

Will we see a better world? Probably no, I hope the next generations will have this opportunity.

Take care, ciao.

Stefano
XLegione

I hope so too, Stefano. Cheers.

[random27]

Men , i think we all have the same feelings against imperialism.
Why don t we play a tournament without any political spirit ?
To see a better world , maybe we , little wargamers can start to prove we are above all of this.
i think that , remembering all the messages of the players , none of us is in favor of any war in the world.

The only purpose of our games is to play battles , we are all fans of history and specially history of war , but the first idea is PLAY and like ericdoman says , we have certainly things in common because we like history at first.

We don t ask to become friends , but i think for the first world tournament of our game , nothing more than play was the word. I haven t seen any problem between teams because of their country , despite of our way of life , which is different all around the world.

Hope other players think like me, maybe things could go on ...