"Difficult Forward Moves" and the Move Chart?

[KenPortner]

I can't seem to wrap my head around this rules.

A "Difficult Forward Move" is one that includes a single wheel and/or less than the full move distance.

On the "Advance" row of the Move Chart there are two possibilities: 1) "Difficult" Forward Move with no more than a single wheel and 2)

Any other Forward Move with no more than a single wheel."

1) is a complex move for undrilled, 2) is a simple move for undrilled.


My Questions:

1. Does this mean that an Undrilled unit that moves full and wheels once needs a CMT, but an undrilled unit that moves full and wheels twice does not? If that's correct, what's the thinking behind this?

2. Since a "Difficult Forward Move" can only include a single wheel, why does the Move Chart list one of the Advances as "Difficult" Forward Move with no more than a single wheel? I mean what's the point of qualifying it by saying it can only include a single wheel?


Thanks

[Blathergut]

A "Difficult Forward Move" is one that includes a single wheel and/or less than the full move distance...On the "Advance" row of the Move Chart there are two possibilities: 1) "Difficult" Forward Move with no more than a single wheel and 2)Any other Forward Move with no more than a single wheel."
1) is a complex move for undrilled, 2) is a simple move for undrilled.
My Questions:
1. Does this mean that an Undrilled unit that moves full and wheels once needs a CMT, but an undrilled unit that moves full and wheels twice does not? If that's correct, what's the thinking behind this?
2. Since a "Difficult Forward Move" can only include a single wheel, why does the Move Chart list one of the Advances as "Difficult" Forward Move with no more than a single wheel? I mean what's the point of qualifying it by saying it can only include a single wheel?
Thanks

1. Undrilled that move full outside of 6MU of enemy can also wheel once and do not need CMT. If it was within 6MU and still full move it would be difficult and need a CMT. Double wheels not matter where are complex for undrilled and need a CMT.
2. I guess since a forward move might not include a wheel, it ended up repeated? Not sure author reason but I've always found it a hand reminder there!

[rogerg]

Perhaps an easier way to remember it is the following. 'Other undrilled', to make a move that gets within 6 MU of the enemy, require either a commander with them, or must pass a CMT. If not, they are limited to a full move straight ahead.

The intent is to prevent the undrilled masses from getting too clever in the face of the enemy. Moving your undrilled together as a battle line is useful. In effect, this keeps the barbarian hordes together in a block under their commander.

[sagji]

I can't seem to wrap my head around this rules.

A "Difficult Forward Move" is one that includes a single wheel and/or less than the full move distance.

On the "Advance" row of the Move Chart there are two possibilities: 1) "Difficult" Forward Move with no more than a single wheel and 2)

Any other Forward Move with no more than a single wheel."

1) is a complex move for undrilled, 2) is a simple move for undrilled.


My Questions:

1. Does this mean that an Undrilled unit that moves full and wheels once needs a CMT, but an undrilled unit that moves full and wheels twice does not? If that's correct, what's the thinking behind this?

No both types of advances are limited to a single wheel. The only way to wheel twice is with a double wheel which is complex to other undrilled.

2. Since a "Difficult Forward Move" can only include a single wheel, why does the Move Chart list one of the Advances as "Difficult" Forward Move with no more than a single wheel? I mean what's the point of qualifying it by saying it can only include a single wheel?

Thanks

The definition of Difficult Forward Move doesn't say it can only contain a single wheel - it says it is difficult if it contains a single wheel and/or moves less than full. Without the extra wording in the advances you could wheel twice and move short, and that would be a Difficult Forward Move.

[hammy]

The main thing to realise is that a "difficult forward move" is actually a simple move for the majority of troops and situations.

A difficult forwards move is only a complex move is the troops moving are "other undrilled" and the move goes within 6MU of enemy and there is no commander with the moving BG.

You are not the only person who has trouble with this part of the rules. Much as you may find it hard to believe a lot of other options were considered and rejected before the final version of the wording was arrived at.

[TERRYFROMSPOKANE]

I have had trouble here as well. As an off shoot of the above, a second move must be a simple advance. However, since a second move must also include a commander, it will not be a difficult move. THEREFORE, a legal second move (not within 6MU of enemy, etc.) for "Other Undrilled" can be less than a full move and include a wheel, as per the second row in the "Advances" section which is "Simple" for all BG's. Is that right?

Thanks,

Terry G.

[philqw78]

Since a second move must include a general and remain outside 6 MU it can include a wheel and be short

[Blathergut]

I have had trouble here as well. As an off shoot of the above, a second move must be a simple advance. However, since a second move must also include a commander, it will not be a difficult move. THEREFORE, a legal second move (not within 6MU of enemy, etc.) for "Other Undrilled" can be less than a full move and include a wheel, as per the second row in the "Advances" section which is "Simple" for all BG's. Is that right?

Thanks,

Terry G.

yep

[JamesB]

I found this helpful:

http://www.madaxeman.com/main/Explanati ... in_FoG.php

Since it's from the Old World God of Field of Glory (OWGoFoG) it's biblical in nature.

[deadtorius]

Since a second move must include a general and remain outside 6 MU it can include a wheel and be short

Well since the advances section for short move starts with the word "difficult" under its description I would have to say no to the short move.
The rules state it has to be a simple advance so I guess you could do a single wheel in your second move. For some reason I always thought the second move had to be straight ahead......go figure, guess I thought that was much simpler

[Blathergut]

Since a second move must include a general and remain outside 6 MU it can include a wheel and be short

Well since the advances section for short move starts with the word "difficult" under its description I would have to say no to the short move.
The rules state it has to be a simple advance so I guess you could do a single wheel in your second move. For some reason I always thought the second move had to be straight ahead......go figure, guess I thought that was much simpler

No...it is the line for a short advance either within 6MU of enemy or without a general. Since a second move can only be made with a general and outside of 6MU, it will never be 'complex' since you are using the 2nd line of the advances options.

[shall]

If there is one area where we managed to make something simple compicated this is it...

It really is very easy, despite our best efforts to make it look otherwise.

You need to take a CMT for undrilled troops wheeling or moving short if they are inside 6MU and don't have a general with them.

Second moves cannot go within 6MU so no issue with those anyway.

That's it. If only we had found a simple way to say so before we went to print .. alas "difficult moves" have always caused confusion. All we were trying to say was that moves that troops generally found easy (single wheels and short advances) are indeed still rather hard for certain troops - undrilled troops without a leader attached - so we make them take a CMT even for these moves. With hinsight we probably should have added a line to the table to separate advance with wheel or short move with and without a general.

Si

[sagji]

I find the best way to think of it is to invert the logic.

There are Easy Advances. An advance is easy if any of the following apply:
The BG, or BL, contains a general.
The move is entirely outside 6MU.
The move does not contain a wheel, and moves the full distance.

An easy advance is allways simple.
Other advances are complex of undrilled other.

Phrasing it this pay avoids the assumption that difficult means complex, and replaces it with easy means simple - which is true.

[philqw78]

I find the best way to think of it is to invert the logic.

There are Easy Advances. An advance is easy if any of the following apply:
The BG, or BL, contains a general.
The move is entirely outside 6MU.
The move does not contain a wheel, and moves the full distance.

An easy advance is allways simple.
Other advances are complex of undrilled other.

Phrasing it this pay avoids the assumption that difficult means complex, and replaces it with easy means simple - which is true.

Brilliant. I wouldn't like to pay to do it though. Easy Advances, Simple Advances and Complex Moves. Great.