Mid-Republican Roman - Italian Allies Question

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:43 pm

I am a new player that has picked up the main rule book and the army book Rise of Rome. For my first two armies I picked Mid-Republican Roman and Later Carthaginian. I have been doing research on the time period and the armies. I have also been looking at a lot of photographs of other people armies to get ideas on miniatures and colors. A lot of the stuff is contracditory and confusing. I have decided on the units and color scheme for everything except for a few units. I am stuck on a couple of units. What should Italian Allies look like (both minitures and uniform colors), the same for Campanian Hoplites for the Carthaginians

Below is my army lists, any comments on design and uniform color would be welcomed. All miniatures are 20mm plastic and each army is based on a 1,200pt limit. Thanks

Mid-Republican Roman

Inspired Commander
Field Commander x2
Equites (Roman Cavalry) 2 Battle Groups of 4 bases each
Hastati 3 Battle Groups of 8 bases each (White uniforms and shields - helps me to remember that they are Average)
Principes (Average) 1 Battle Group of 8 bases (White Uniforms and shields)
Veteran Principes 2 Battle Groups of 8 bases each (Red uniforms and shields to help me remember that they are Superior)
Triarii 2 Battle Groups of 4 bases each (Red Uniforms and shields)
Veteran Triarii 1 Battle Group of 4 bases (Blue uniforms and shield to help me remember that they are Elite)
Velites 6 Battle Groups of 4 bases each (Standard white tunics with appropriate animal head gear plus different color shields for each battle group for helping me to distinguish units)
Pedites 1 Battle Group of 4 bases (?)
Allied Italian Infantry 2 Battle Groups of 6 bases each (?)
Fortified Camp

Later Carthaginian
Inspired Commander
Field Commander x2
Libyphoenician Cavalry 1 Battle Group 4 bases
Gallic Cavalry 1 Battle Group of 4 bases
Spanish Heavy Cavalry 1 Battle Group of 4 bases
Numidian Cavalry 3 Battle Groups of 4 bases each
Elephanst 3 battle groups of 2 bases each (I just love the look of War Elephants)
African Spearment 3 Battle Groups of 6 bases each
Gallic Foot 2 Battle Groups of 10 bases each
Campanian Hoplites 1 Battle Groups of 6 bases (Need idea about look of miniature and color scheme)
Poeni Foot 1 Battle Group of 8 bases
Numidian Javelinmen 2 Battle Groups of 6 bases each
Balearic Slingers 1 Battle Group of 4 bases
Allied Iberian Troop Commander
Scutarii 1 Battle Group of 8 bases
Caetrati 1 Battle Groups of 6 bases
Iberian Light Cavalry 1 Battle Groups of 4 bases

I plan to uses miniatures for Hat 8040 Italian Allies. Here are the options I have for minitures.

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=617

Mithras · Post by **Mithras** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:22 pm

CharlesRobinson wrote:I am a new player that has picked up the main rule book and the army book Rise of Rome. For my first two armies I picked Mid-Republican Roman and Later Carthaginian. I have been doing research on the time period and the armies. I have also been looking at a lot of photographs of other people armies to get ideas on miniatures and colors. A lot of the stuff is contracditory and confusing. I have decided on the units and color scheme for everything except for a few units. I am stuck on a couple of units. What should Italian Allies look like (both minitures and uniform colors), the same for Campanian Hoplites for the Carthaginians

Below is my army lists, any comments on design and uniform color would be welcomed. All miniatures are 20mm plastic and each army is based on a 1,200pt limit. Thanks

Mid-Republican Roman

Inspired Commander
Field Commander x2
Equites (Roman Cavalry) 2 Battle Groups of 4 bases each
Hastati 3 Battle Groups of 8 bases each (White uniforms and shields - helps me to remember that they are Average)
Principes (Average) 1 Battle Group of 8 bases (White Uniforms and shields)
Veteran Principes 2 Battle Groups of 8 bases each (Red uniforms and shields to help me remember that they are Superior)
Triarii 2 Battle Groups of 4 bases each (Red Uniforms and shields)
Veteran Triarii 1 Battle Group of 4 bases (Blue uniforms and shield to help me remember that they are Elite)
Velites 6 Battle Groups of 4 bases each (Standard white tunics with appropriate animal head gear plus different color shields for each battle group for helping me to distinguish units)
Pedites 1 Battle Group of 4 bases (?)
Allied Italian Infantry 2 Battle Groups of 6 bases each (?)
Fortified Camp

Later Carthaginian
Inspired Commander
Field Commander x2
Libyphoenician Cavalry 1 Battle Group 4 bases
Gallic Cavalry 1 Battle Group of 4 bases
Spanish Heavy Cavalry 1 Battle Group of 4 bases
Numidian Cavalry 3 Battle Groups of 4 bases each
Elephanst 3 battle groups of 2 bases each (I just love the look of War Elephants)
African Spearment 3 Battle Groups of 6 bases each
Gallic Foot 2 Battle Groups of 10 bases each
Campanian Hoplites 1 Battle Groups of 6 bases (Need idea about look of miniature and color scheme)
Poeni Foot 1 Battle Group of 8 bases
Numidian Javelinmen 2 Battle Groups of 6 bases each
Balearic Slingers 1 Battle Group of 4 bases
Allied Iberian Troop Commander
Scutarii 1 Battle Group of 8 bases
Caetrati 1 Battle Groups of 6 bases
Iberian Light Cavalry 1 Battle Groups of 4 bases

I plan to uses miniatures for Hat 8040 Italian Allies. Here are the options I have for minitures.

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=617

Since you are playing with such large armies, the Field Commanders might be wasted points, as they are most useful for flank marches. In a battle of this size, with the standard sized table, you won't have room for much flank marching.

Just an observation.

-M.

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:26 pm

Thank you for your reply. Yes I am collecting up to a 1200pts for each army, but can and have played them at lower point levels. The idea being that I can play from 600pt to 1200pts. Apoligizies for any confusion. They are based for 25mm. Our tables are set up right next to each other so that you can vary game table length based on the size of your battles (sort of like a long bench). We usually go with 6' for 600pts, 8' for 800pts, 10' for 1000pts and 12' for 1200pts (two 4'x6' tables side by side). Thanks

Mehrunes · Post by **Mehrunes** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:19 pm

I regard the option for "lighter equipped Italian foot" as possibility to display earlier Italian allies, who fought as Roman ala legions, but in their traditional looser formations. Later, they wouldn't be distinguishable from Romans or Latins any longer.

Thus, I have (or am building at the moment) miniatures for my MRR army that display earlier armies (unshielded leves => unprotected, visible italian cavalry and foot => protected cavalry and Italian foot as ersatz-legion, Principes with pectorale => protected legions) and later armies (shielded velites => protected, no longer distinguishable ally legions => armoured cavalry and no more use of the Italian foot, Principes with lorica hamata => armoured legions).

At first I had different tunic colors, too, but soon wasn't satisfied with that anymore. So I painted them up with natural bleached tunics (FAP'ed white) and used command bases with musicians, standards and officers to show, what is superior, average or poor. Average and Poor have maniple standards, superior have vexilia flags. Poor legions have an officer who leans on his shield and obviously doesn't want to fight, average have an optio and superior have an centurio.

So, if you want to use Italian Foot (and I personally wouldn't in a post-2nd Punic War army), you should watch out for pictures or drawings of Italian tribes like the Samnites, Bruttians, Lucanians, Apulians and so on. There is a really good Osprey "Early Italian Armies" I think. Duncan Head's "Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars" helps, too. Or just google with some of the tribe names. Crusader or Aventine Miniatures just have released new miniatures for Italian tribes, so inspiration can be drawn out of painted 28mm miniatures, too.

Campanian Hoplites should have a spear, greaves and a round shield, surprise, that's what hoplites wear.

The helmet should have the typical italian plumes.

The star with eight "rays" is a common sight on Italiot shields. Southern, greek-influenced tribes could have greek shield patterns.

PS: I don't know yet how to paint up my Pedites Extraordinarii, too. But as they are only hand-picked soldiers out of all the recruits, they should look the same as the bulk of the army. Perhaps some broken ground on the base to reflect their advance guard role? Or some cool, fantasy-like black tunics like Achilles' Myrmidons in the movie Troy?

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:14 pm

The Command stands are an interesting idea and one that I had not thought of. I may use something like that for some of the other armies, but I think I will stick with the colors - I want to break up the look of the army some.

Black for the Pedites was a color I had not thought of neither, I may have to steal that one.

I tried the google searches but really did not hit on to much. Mostly computer games pictures which are almost always iffy. From what I understand, all the ones you mentioned leaned more on the side of the Carthaginians, but Apulians is not one of those mentioned so may have stuck with Rome. I have not been able to find much on them.

Thank you very much for your reply.

CharlesRobinson · Post by **CharlesRobinson** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:18 am

Well I am flying off on vacation in the morning and just wanted to thank everyone that replied to my post. See you all in a few weeks.

Mid-Republican Roman - Italian Allies Question

Mid-Republican Roman - Italian Allies Question

Re: Mid-Republican Roman - Italian Allies Question