class 5 range 1 with positive sa and ha values can dierct fire at groumd targets and take no retrurn fire which is overpowered. might be ok for 20mm aa with low values.
i was thinking maybe class 2 units could have range 1? might make them more useful. i would have flak 88 switch between class 5 range 1 negative sa/ha positive aa and class 5 range 0 positive sa/ha negative aa. the AI is not very good at switching so maybe the AI sides units could be different to the players?
class 5 range 0
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Re: class 5 range 0
You are right. I imagine the computer will be direct firing everywhere (40mm Bofors firing on tanks from 2 hex’s away, etc.).
Negative values it is with a switch to positive values for direct fire.
I have Tigers and 88s (in AT mode) with range 1. Their max strength is much smaller than the rest of the units due to how they were deployed historically but the range 1 should help their utility (and they did have very long range guns/optics). Their small unit size will also translate into a need for proper support.
Negative values it is with a switch to positive values for direct fire.
I have Tigers and 88s (in AT mode) with range 1. Their max strength is much smaller than the rest of the units due to how they were deployed historically but the range 1 should help their utility (and they did have very long range guns/optics). Their small unit size will also translate into a need for proper support.
Re: class 5 range 0
interesting re: tiger and 88s. isn't their high initiative supposed to represent their long range? i.e. they shoot first
yes will small unit size (max strength less than 10) you can't just turn up with 3 tigers and block dozens of soviet attacks without some other stuff with you/behind you.
yes will small unit size (max strength less than 10) you can't just turn up with 3 tigers and block dozens of soviet attacks without some other stuff with you/behind you.
Re: class 5 range 0
High initiative does represent long range but my experience suggests smaller units need an extra advantage if they are going to fight in heavy combat. Units with 5 max strength will always receive return fire at range 0 from a 10 strength unit. The RNG often gives at least one high number in return fire.
The constant return fire combined with that one high RNG number (54,71, 35, 96, 68 as an example) lead to the unit being whittled down pretty quickly. It stands a much better chance if it can attack first without receiving fire. This puts a dent in the enemy before it receives an attack on its turn (representing the toll long range guns and better optics are taking on the enemy as they try to advance within range). You still want other units close by in order to support the Tiger and hopefully draw fire as well.
My 88 Flak units will be max strength 4 with a ROF of 15. Approximately 40 88s together would represent an Air Corps (alongside approximately 40 20mms). This is about as large a concentration of Luftwaffe units assigned to an Army group would be (they were usually much smaller). It would clearly be wiped out attacking a 10 strength T-34 without having range =1. With range 1 it hopefully damages the T-34s to the point that it can not be easily overrun by the same unit during the AI’s turn.
The constant return fire combined with that one high RNG number (54,71, 35, 96, 68 as an example) lead to the unit being whittled down pretty quickly. It stands a much better chance if it can attack first without receiving fire. This puts a dent in the enemy before it receives an attack on its turn (representing the toll long range guns and better optics are taking on the enemy as they try to advance within range). You still want other units close by in order to support the Tiger and hopefully draw fire as well.
My 88 Flak units will be max strength 4 with a ROF of 15. Approximately 40 88s together would represent an Air Corps (alongside approximately 40 20mms). This is about as large a concentration of Luftwaffe units assigned to an Army group would be (they were usually much smaller). It would clearly be wiped out attacking a 10 strength T-34 without having range =1. With range 1 it hopefully damages the T-34s to the point that it can not be easily overrun by the same unit during the AI’s turn.
Re: class 5 range 0
flak with all positive values in sa, ha, aa doesnt work. if there is enemy air-unit above enemy ground-unit, the flak can only fire on the ground unit.
for nightfighters: give them trait reconmove so they can fly in, fire, escape in one turn.
very interesting discussion.
for nightfighters: give them trait reconmove so they can fly in, fire, escape in one turn.
very interesting discussion.
Re: class 5 range 0
for nightfighters: someone once suggested adding "reconmove" to them. try it with a 110G.
air units can be given range = 1 i believe (not tried it myself)
class 5 all positive attack values breaks aa? i didn't know that i'll test.
air units can be given range = 1 i believe (not tried it myself)
class 5 all positive attack values breaks aa? i didn't know that i'll test.
Re: class 5 range 0
I did keep my local air defense units (US M16 MGMC as an example) with positive values so they can be used for antipersonnel operations. They have range 0 and can not attack nearby aircraft anyway. They can only provide air defense fire when an aircraft attacks them or an adjacent unit (or when an air unit is directly overhead I suppose...) because they are class 5 units (thank you sbpc1).
I am starting to believe recon move for night fighters is a good way to simulate them not having to face escorts the same way as day fighters. It just seems like the best solution.
Thank you for the input oltpq.
I am starting to believe recon move for night fighters is a good way to simulate them not having to face escorts the same way as day fighters. It just seems like the best solution.
Thank you for the input oltpq.
Re: class 5 range 0
range 0 for aa works pretty well, tested this morning.
i made small aa switchable to class 0 w/o brackets, so they can help inf fighting near cities and forrests, cause they fire on cd, what is realistic imo.
fighters should all have negative sa, ha, na; this way they work in their intended role (hunters in the air). idea from deducter iirc.
i made small aa switchable to class 0 w/o brackets, so they can help inf fighting near cities and forrests, cause they fire on cd, what is realistic imo.
fighters should all have negative sa, ha, na; this way they work in their intended role (hunters in the air). idea from deducter iirc.
Re: class 5 range 0
i think fighters (class 7) for the AI should have sa ha na = 0. this way they don't get distracted hitting ground targets for 1 damage - that's not their role. i'm not sure what negative sa ha na would do. maybe = 0 is what you mean.
deducter - come back and contribute!
deducter - come back and contribute!
Re: class 5 range 0
0 SA HA and NA is a great idea for fighters (although I would make some exceptions for the the P-47, etc.). That is an excellent idea and will force them to fight for air superiority instead of getting shot up attacking infantry (or taking that consistent 1-3 points off your tanks). It is a shame they will not be able to take advantage of infantry loaded in trucks but worth it.
This change will make them more persistent when combined with my 0 range air defense (only 37mm or 88 flaks will be able to fire on them). Now they will not get shredded by 20mms because they will not be committing foolish low-level attacks against ground units. It will also prevent me from taking entrenchment down by having a fighter strafe an entrenched unit a city.
Excellent idea!
This change will make them more persistent when combined with my 0 range air defense (only 37mm or 88 flaks will be able to fire on them). Now they will not get shredded by 20mms because they will not be committing foolish low-level attacks against ground units. It will also prevent me from taking entrenchment down by having a fighter strafe an entrenched unit a city.
Excellent idea!
Re: class 5 range 0
fgiannet: yes!
they shouldn't get "trapped" so easily either if not trying foolish low level attacks.
do some testing a let us all know. the AI needs to be stopped from doing dumb things and its use of aircraft is pretty dumb.
i'd let the player still have fighters with sa, though (not ha). the player is clever enough to make good decisions for "strafing" - it is useful to chip 1 str from units and reduce entrechment by one level. but the AI doesn't get it.
the P-47 might be an exception. or have 2 "versions" of it - one for higher altitude air combat and one for lower altitude ground unit worrying.
they shouldn't get "trapped" so easily either if not trying foolish low level attacks.
do some testing a let us all know. the AI needs to be stopped from doing dumb things and its use of aircraft is pretty dumb.
i'd let the player still have fighters with sa, though (not ha). the player is clever enough to make good decisions for "strafing" - it is useful to chip 1 str from units and reduce entrechment by one level. but the AI doesn't get it.
the P-47 might be an exception. or have 2 "versions" of it - one for higher altitude air combat and one for lower altitude ground unit worrying.