Town & County Longbowmen (Shire levy) flags?

jlopez · Post by **jlopez** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:01 pm

Did shire levy longbowmen contigents fight under a county banner (if so what did it look like) or that of local nobles? Ta.

Julian

jlopez · Post by **jlopez** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:52 pm

Anyone?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:06 pm

Since the county troops belonged to the guy named for the county, (or the county named for him?), it would I believe be the nobles banner's, which could be the county banner. So no help really. Henry VII banned livery after the war to stop the Barons being so upity or something to that effect. But then I'm no expert.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:03 pm

Almost certainly fought under a nobs banner - although IIRC a couple of town banners are known.

tadamson · Post by **tadamson** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:43 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:Almost certainly fought under a nobs banner - although IIRC a couple of town banners are known.

tsk Nik,

Shire levy were raised by royal officers (who may have been nobles but were mostly knights or squires) and fought under a royal standard (though not the Royal Standard). No county banners at this stage but those raised by local clerics in emergency occasionally fought under the standard of a local saint.

nb British nobility were not directly associated with geographical regions (eg Duke of Norfolk had nothing to do with the county of Norfolk).

Towns did raise troops (often not that enthusiasticly, and in the WoR even for both sides at once), these did fight under the towns banner.

Tom..

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:25 pm

tadamson wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:Almost certainly fought under a nobs banner - although IIRC a couple of town banners are known.
tsk Nik,

Shire levy were raised by royal officers (who may have been nobles but were mostly knights or squires) and fought under a royal standard (though not the Royal Standard). No county banners at this stage but those raised by local clerics in emergency occasionally fought under the standard of a local saint.

Yup, the commissions of array system. However, in the civil war situation of the WotR these were often given to the great men upon whom the kings relied - the Earl of Warwick and Duke of Clarence for example in 1470 - whom I rather suspect would then appropriate them (a clue may well be taken from the Duke of Buckingham at the start of the wars issuing 2000 armbands with his badge on to troops outside of his retinue).

tadamson · Post by **tadamson** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:01 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
tadamson wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:Almost certainly fought under a nobs banner - although IIRC a couple of town banners are known.
tsk Nik,

Shire levy were raised by royal officers (who may have been nobles but were mostly knights or squires) and fought under a royal standard (though not the Royal Standard). No county banners at this stage but those raised by local clerics in emergency occasionally fought under the standard of a local saint.

Yup, the commissions of array system. However, in the civil war situation of the WotR these were often given to the great men upon whom the kings relied - the Earl of Warwick and Duke of Clarence for example in 1470 - whom I rather suspect would then appropriate them (a clue may well be taken from the Duke of Buckingham at the start of the wars issuing 2000 armbands with his badge on to troops outside of his retinue).

IIRC they were troops raised by his own warrant (the other system used in civil war was to simply summon an array - but then the troops aren't, technically, 'shire levy' any more just over and above the magnates retinue and livery troops)