Retreat mechanics

[Trepko]

While playing MP games and especially WC2021, I'm realizing that many of us don't master the retreat mechanics. However, knowing where an enemy unit will retreat is absolutly vital for setting a powerful attack (and the same concerning your own unit to set a proper defense).
The least that we can say is that game manual is not crystal clear concerning the retreat mechanics (only general guidelines)

So I'd like to share what I know about this, and I'd like to complete my knowledge about what I don't know !

Some general infos to remember :
Retreat occurs when 66% (or more) of a unit’s unsuppressed strength is killed, and if its entrenchment level equals to the base level of the hex (after the entrenchment reduction of the attack).
As always, the exceptions:
- Planes don’t retreat
- Ships don’t retreat
- Units attacked by planes, artillery and ships don’t retreat
And the exception among the exceptions: ships in a port can retreat if attacked by a land unit.

The process to determine the hex which will be chosen by a retreating unit is the following one, with the questions asked in this order (and sorry for the awful quickly drawed paint)

Retreat.jpg (91.1 KiB) Viewed 4063 times

As you can see, I don't have all the infos neither, and there are still some cases where I don't know what will happen... If someone knows the anwsers, please share them !

[Brausebad]

While playing MP games and especially WC2021, I'm realizing that many of us don't master the retreat mechanics. However, knowing where an enemy unit will retreat is absolutly vital for setting a powerful attack (and the same concerning your own unit to set a proper defense).
The least that we can say is that game manual is not crystal clear concerning the retreat mechanics (only general guidelines)

So I'd like to share what I know about this, and I'd like to complete my knowledge about what I don't know !

Some general infos to remember :
Retreat occurs when 66% (or more) of a unit’s unsuppressed strength is killed, and if its entrenchment level equals to the base level of the hex (after the entrenchment reduction of the attack).
As always, the exceptions:
- Planes don’t retreat
- Ships don’t retreat
- Units attacked by planes, artillery and ships don’t retreat
And the exception among the exceptions: ships in a port can retreat if attacked by a land unit.

The process to determine the hex which will be chosen by a retreating unit is the following one, with the questions asked in this order (and sorry for the awful quickly drawed paint)

Retreat.jpg


As you can see, I don't have all the infos neither, and there are still some cases where I don't know what will happen... If someone knows the anwsers, please share them !

Hello - first of all thanks for this text it is very interesting for me. On one point I remember another way of saying it: Units with an entrenchment level above 2 do not retreat. Regarding the other questions, I think I still have a book mark somewhere that could help to solve them. I'm looking for it.

[a432]

Thanks for this Trepko!

I wonder how the game decides when there are multiple hex it could move to and the movement cost is the same and the ZOC is the same and it can't move to the hex directly opposed to the attack.

[Trepko]

Yep, I'm wondering it too. Among all the situations I witnessed, I couldn't determine a 100% rule.
When I'm thinking about it, I guess following questions could be asked by the game to determine the final hex (after all the previous questions):

- in which retreating hex will the unit be the farthest of any enemy unit ? (by retreating, this could be logical to put the maximum distance between you and the enemy)
- in which retreating hex will your unit have the highest entrenchment ? (high entrenchment will protect your unit in the next turn)
- is there a retreating hex which is not a "close terrain" hex ? (except for infantry, land units are very vulnerable in close terrain)
- other...

Unfortunatly, I've not been able to prove anything until now...

[Brausebad]

viewtopic.php?f=464&t=107814

Not what I remembered, but it's going in that direction. Tassadar would be one I would trust with an answer.

[GomezAdams]

I think there's also a factor of how experienced the unit is that needs to retreat vs. the experience of the attacking unit. That's why you have some units surrender when it appears that they have a means of retreat sometimes.

Example: a unit with no stars of experience is attacked by a unit with 4 stars of experience. The route is so bad that rather than retreat the inexperienced unit surrenders with 3 or 4 units left.

I'm thinking there's a panic equation based on unit experience somewhere along the line.

[Tassadar]

Answering this would probably require setting up a very specific set of test scenarios unless the devs are willing to share some light on the way this is coded. However, checking if it is random can be a bit faster and in fact it requires a very simple setup on all open terrain - enemy unit between two units, attacked and forced to retreat either left or right. If I run into this specific situation in one of my games I'll try not to forget to check it out with reloading (plus reloading after game restart to try and clear the cache/seeded values).

I think there's also a factor of how experienced the unit is that needs to retreat vs. the experience of the attacking unit. That's why you have some units surrender when it appears that they have a means of retreat sometimes.

Example: a unit with no stars of experience is attacked by a unit with 4 stars of experience. The route is so bad that rather than retreat the inexperienced unit surrenders with 3 or 4 units left.

I'm thinking there's a panic equation based on unit experience somewhere along the line.

I have literally never seen it happen and I don't think there is such a mechanic unless something unannounced got added to the game. The only reason I can see this having an impact would be the fact experienced units are more likely to deal enough damage to force a retreat when the unit was already previously under some condition depriving it of movement points or fuel.

[malic]

I find that defending units that are attacked give up their ground and retreat to easily, especially in scenarios where you are supposed to hold your ground.

[Trepko]

Answering this would probably require setting up a very specific set of test scenarios unless the devs are willing to share some light on the way this is coded. However, checking if it is random can be a bit faster and in fact it requires a very simple setup on all open terrain - enemy unit between two units, attacked and forced to retreat either left or right. If I run into this specific situation in one of my games I'll try not to forget to check it out with reloading (plus reloading after game restart to try and clear the cache/seeded values).

I think there's also a factor of how experienced the unit is that needs to retreat vs. the experience of the attacking unit. That's why you have some units surrender when it appears that they have a means of retreat sometimes.

Example: a unit with no stars of experience is attacked by a unit with 4 stars of experience. The route is so bad that rather than retreat the inexperienced unit surrenders with 3 or 4 units left.

I'm thinking there's a panic equation based on unit experience somewhere along the line.

I have literally never seen it happen and I don't think there is such a mechanic unless something unannounced got added to the game. The only reason I can see this having an impact would be the fact experienced units are more likely to deal enough damage to force a retreat when the unit was already previously under some condition depriving it of movement points or fuel.

I agree, I've never seen anything which could make me think that experience is a parameter of retreat mechanics.

I've run a few tests, and I'm positive that there is no randomness in retreat mechanics. A situation with equivalent hex always end up in the same retreat hex being always chosen. I think there might be some clockwise (or unclockwise) parameter somewhere, as I once read there was in PzC1.
I'll put some screenshots later on.

[GomezAdams]

Well, I am just guessing. I've seen troops with 4 left in them surrender when there were several empty hexes all around them. Nothing in that drawing can possibly explain that.

[Moniker]

If the unit was out of movement points it couldn't retreat and would surrender if I remember correctly. Maybe the 4 strength unit had previously retreated and ran out of movement points?

[GomezAdams]

You know, that makes more sense. It hadn't moved the turn before because it had put in reinforcements.

[nexusno2000]

The River Panther puzzle scenario has a lot of fun retreat interactions.

[VirgilInTheSKY]

You know, that makes more sense. It hadn't moved the turn before because it had put in reinforcements.

Sounds like nowhere to retreat then. Unit only surrender when nowhere to retreat or not enough movement to retreat.

[GomezAdams]

Sounds like nowhere to retreat then. Unit only surrender when nowhere to retreat or not enough movement to retreat.

Read the thread. That's not accurate. I've had enemy units surrender with nobody around them at all but my attacking unit. Plenty of hexes to retreat to, 4 units left, surrendered.

[robman]

This happens if the defending unit is out of fuel or has no movement points left.

[ChristianC]

Why do units occasionally retreat onto open adjacent river hexes (losing all movement points and potentially next to enemy units) when there are open hexes behind them within the unit's movement points and not blocked by enemy zone of control? Here is a link to an earlier post of mine describing this in more detail: viewtopic.php?f=464&t=107814&p=954083&h ... ds#p954083

These cases violate all the 'retreat logic' I've seen so far.

[Wolfenguard]

Sounds like nowhere to retreat then. Unit only surrender when nowhere to retreat or not enough movement to retreat.

Read the thread. That's not accurate. I've had enemy units surrender with nobody around them at all but my attacking unit. Plenty of hexes to retreat to, 4 units left, surrendered.

mhh is the attacker a normal unit without hero or had the attacker the one hero who destroy enemy movements by attacking ? (good combo with the one where the enemy must retreat after attack)