how close?

[deadtorius]

A situation we keep running into with our lights that I am not sure we are doing right. We like to move our lights javelins to just short of making contact with the enemy, a few mm's between and chuck spears/ force a control test to see if you can make the impact troops charge you. I was wondering is there somewhere in the rules that specifies how close you can get to an enemy without charging, other than the ZOI?

Another odd situation I ran into, my companions became disordered from being shot at by roman artillery and they were in charge range of enemy troops (the legion standing beside the aritllery was straight ahead). When I made my control check I found it harder to control them since they got a -1 for being disordered. Seems kind of odd that disordered troops are more likely to charge in then when they are steady, or do you not count those mods for testing not to charge

[WhiteKnight]

There's no limit to how far short of actual contact you can move towards enemy although a gnat's todger was once mentionned!

When troops are disordered, the command and control system has been compromised so they are less likely to obey orders. Maybe got fed up with being shot at and wanted to silence the artillery?

Martin

[lawrenceg]

When troops are disordered, the command and control system has been compromised so they are less likely to obey orders. Maybe got fed up with being shot at and wanted to silence the artillery?

Martin

Read Herodotus' account of the battle of Plataea for a description of this phenomenon.

[timmy1]

I would recommend no closer than 1 MU as on page 56 it states 'For a charge to qualify as a flank charge, it cannot include a wheel unless the charging BG starts its move with its nearest point at least 1 MU away...' Not sure that is what you want but it does mean that if he turns away and ignores you, you do have the option to charge his flank (provided you meet the other criteria).

[nikgaukroger]

That bit has nothing to do with how close you can get - it just affects wheeling in a charge in some circumstances.

The closest you can go without contacting is indeed the gnats todger (which differs slightly between imprial and metric gnats).

[timmy1]

Agreed. What do the FoG rules say about do you have to use imperial or metric measures for a gnat's todger?

[deadtorius]

well guess we can continue to todger up with our lights then, I will have to consult some local gnats regarding metric or imperial
thanks

[fatismo]

you can actually get closer than a gnat's todger. in a past game I moved a unit of LF (slightly offset) close to my opponents HF troops 'moving to within a gnats todger' as I told my opponent. In his turn he moved a unit of LF up beside his HF to within half a gnats todger of my LF, therefore making them a closer target than the HF and spliting my shooting dice.

[Blathergut]

wonders just what a gnat's 'todger' is and why anyone ever wanted to measure it!!!

[deadtorius]

Thinks Blathergut should spend more time digging trenches and less time worrying about gnat anatomy

[expendablecinc]

Agreed. What do the FoG rules say about do you have to use imperial or metric measures for a gnat's todger?

You also need to bear in mind regional variations in todger size. Australian gnats are known to sire giant bush cockroach half breeds.

[DaiSho]

A situation we keep running into with our lights that I am not sure we are doing right. We like to move our lights javelins to just short of making contact with the enemy, a few mm's between and chuck spears/ force a control test to see if you can make the impact troops charge you. I was wondering is there somewhere in the rules that specifies how close you can get to an enemy without charging, other than the ZOI?

There doesn't appear to be a limit as to how close you can get, however in reality blocks of 1MU are what important distances are built upon.

For example, if you are 1/2 an MU away from the enemy and he charges you and you evade the VMD is going to only matter if he rolls greater than you, which is in blocks of 1MU. Thus, you evade 4" and he persues 5" well, he catches you. If you're one fraction of a bee's dick away from him or 99% of 1MU away from him he still catches you. Thus there is no difference between being 31/32nd's of an inch away and 1/32nd of an inch away. It probably makes things simpler if you're 'about 1/2 an inch away'.

Ian

[lawrenceg]

wonders just what a gnat's 'todger' is and why anyone ever wanted to measure it!!!

http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/TODGER

[lawrenceg]

There doesn't appear to be a limit as to how close you can get, however in reality blocks of 1MU are what important distances are built upon.

For example, if you are 1/2 an MU away from the enemy and he charges you and you evade the VMD is going to only matter if he rolls greater than you, which is in blocks of 1MU. Thus, you evade 4" and he persues 5" well, he catches you. If you're one fraction of a bee's dick away from him or 99% of 1MU away from him he still catches you. Thus there is no difference between being 31/32nd's of an inch away and 1/32nd of an inch away. It probably makes things simpler if you're 'about 1/2 an inch away'.

Ian

Getting really close constrains the enemy's freedom to wheel when he charges.

[DaiSho]

There doesn't appear to be a limit as to how close you can get, however in reality blocks of 1MU are what important distances are built upon.

For example, if you are 1/2 an MU away from the enemy and he charges you and you evade the VMD is going to only matter if he rolls greater than you, which is in blocks of 1MU. Thus, you evade 4" and he persues 5" well, he catches you. If you're one fraction of a bee's dick away from him or 99% of 1MU away from him he still catches you. Thus there is no difference between being 31/32nd's of an inch away and 1/32nd of an inch away. It probably makes things simpler if you're 'about 1/2 an inch away'.

Ian

Getting really close constrains the enemy's freedom to wheel when he charges.

Not if you're within an inch, so if you're 1/2" away he's still just as constrained.

Ian

[hammy]

Getting really close constrains the enemy's freedom to wheel when he charges.

Not if you're within an inch, so if you're 1/2" away he's still just as constrained.

Actually that is not the case. The key is that you can't wheel a charge past the point at which it would contact enemy even if the enemy in question are highly likely to evade. Putting skirmishers right in the face of the enemy does restrict their options but slightly increases the risk to the skirmishers.

[DaiSho]

Actually that is not the case. The key is that you can't wheel a charge past the point at which it would contact enemy even if the enemy in question are highly likely to evade. Putting skirmishers right in the face of the enemy does restrict their options but slightly increases the risk to the skirmishers.

Does it? I don't have my rules here to check, but...

Hoplites delcare charge on skirmishers to their front. They put down a charge path which includes a 45degree wheel.
Skirmishers say 'ooh, ahh, perhaps it is in our best interests to do a retrograde action' and roll their VMD
Hoplites say 'ooh, ahh, perhaps it is best if we run after the cowardly curr's' and roll their VMD
Skirmishers have a choice of retreating away from the charge direction or to their rear.
Hoplites charge along their charge path (45 degree wheel).

Let me know if I've got this wrong.

Ian

[rogerg]

You got it wrong.

The charge path cannot include any wheeling past the point at which the enemy would be contacted if they didn't evade. Hence the above discussion. Get your skirmishers almost touching the enemy and those enemy have virtually no wheeling option when declaring the charge.

[rbodleyscott]

You got it wrong.

The charge path cannot include any wheeling past the point at which the enemy would be contacted if they didn't evade.

This, of course, is not explicitly stated in the rule book, but is clarified in the FAQ.

[DaiSho]

You got it wrong.

The charge path cannot include any wheeling past the point at which the enemy would be contacted if they didn't evade.

This, of course, is not explicitly stated in the rule book, but is clarified in the FAQ.

Ahh, ok, thanks Richard. Must read more FAQ's. Hopefully it will remain smaller than the rule book