Limited Stock Grand Campaign early impressions

[rgreat]

Limited stock is a very neat feature.
I think it is how the game should be played.
But current implementation is too basic, and I think is in need to be fine-tuned.

Stock amount must be cost and rarity based, so you would get a lot of basic infantry and other cheap and older units, but very limited amount of new and cutting edge units.

So, something along the lines:

[Unit Stock amount] = [Some Unit Type Based Constant] * [Value Based of Number of Months Since First Appearance] / [Unit Cost].

Please consider a change.

[Tassadar]

Assigning a specific rarity value to each unit would be quite the challenge to get it balanced. I am doing an AAR where I set myself limits based on historical production figures and believe me, getting accurate and believable data for that is a pain. Even if the authors went and assigned 3 levels of rarity to each vehicle, it would be a complex thing to get right. For me it works well with just the fact that prototypes have more limited numbers via CP awards, but I agree with the people who would give basic infantry a more generous amount of replacements (but not infinite, I got convinced that even basic infantry should have a limit).

[Panzer73]

Aye, basic infantry should be 1.5x the limit, considering the infantry strength is 15 and not 10. That said, considering that infantry take a lot of damage compared to combat vehicles and support units (at least until they get a couple of starts of experience), it might make sense to bring it to 2x even. The infantry limits for SCW are probably more painful than the rest of the DLCs, due to the Italians being auxiliaries and deployed units are lost when the scenario ends. Unless they can be brought to a supply hex to be disbanded...

I have tried a new corps, the 5th Panzer Corps, starting in SCW. I am in the Catalonia Mission right now. When I import the Corps to AO'39, I'm thinking of starting with a supply limit of 30 for the first mission, so that I can buy my usual infantry set up, and dial it back to 20 or 15 over the next couple of missions.

[Scrapulous]

When I import the Corps to AO'39, I'm thinking of starting with a supply limit of 30 for the first mission, so that I can buy my usual infantry set up, and dial it back to 20 or 15 over the next couple of missions.

In the campaign I'm playing, the Czechoslovakia mission inflicted nearly no casualties, so the first mission's worth of stock was essentially "free." My guess is that you won't need to do this for things to feel fine at the start of AO'39. SCW definitely makes infantry feel scarce, but I found that gradually adjusting the composition of my core to include infantry over the first few 1939 missions was mostly smooth. Whatever you decide, I'd be interested in reading about it.

[rgreat]

Assigning a specific rarity value to each unit would be quite the challenge to get it balanced.

Even a rough rebalance will be useful.
For example:
Basic Infantry: x5
Specialist Infantry: x2
Light Tanks: x2
Medium Tanks: x1.5
Heavy Tanks: x1
AT Guns: x1
AA Guns: x1
Small Artillery: x1.5
Large Artillery: x1
Fighters: x1.5
Tactical Bombers: x1.5
Strategic Bombers: x1

Also, maximum limit of stock should be ~~~ 2-5 times of the numbers above.

[calmhatchery]

Assigning a specific rarity value to each unit would be quite the challenge to get it balanced.

Even a rough rebalance will be useful.
For example:
Basic Infantry: x5
Specialist Infantry: x2
Light Tanks: x2
Medium Tanks: x1.5
Heavy Tanks: x1
AT Guns: x1
AA Guns: x1
Small Artillery: x1.5
Large Artillery: x1
Fighters: x1.5
Tactical Bombers: x1.5
Strategic Bombers: x1

Also, maximum limit of stock should be ~~~ 2-5 times of the numbers above.

I totally agree with this balance!!! Hope that we can get it in the future.

[Tassadar]

This doers seem an interesting suggestion. It would probably also be worth making differences between towed and self-propelled guns. 5 times the amount for basic infantry seem like an overkill. I'd keep it at most at 3, but the other elements could indeed be between a 1-2 multiplier.

[Panzer73]

In the campaign I'm playing, the Czechoslovakia mission inflicted nearly no casualties, so the first mission's worth of stock was essentially "free." My guess is that you won't need to do this for things to feel fine at the start of AO'39. SCW definitely makes infantry feel scarce, but I found that gradually adjusting the composition of my core to include infantry over the first few 1939 missions was mostly smooth. Whatever you decide, I'd be interested in reading about it.

I went with the default 20 in the end. I adjusted my usual starting Corps infantry composition to have one of each: Bridge Engineers, Combat Engineers, Grenadiers, Standard Infantry and Cavalry. Normally I use two regulars and no cavalry. I am currently in Wladowa. I gradually added one more of each infantry type. I ran out of regulars in the Warndt forest, so I relied on cavalry more in the next couple of scenarios. By the end of the Bzura scenario I had ~ 70 grenadiers, ~ 60 regulars, and 25-27 of combat engineers and cavalry. Barely lost anything in Lvov.

Don't ask about my equipment stock. With 20 per scenario, there is too much of everything! What limited upgrades early on wasn't Limited Stock but my habit of playing with Slow Modernization. There is always a large backlog when importing from SCW: 5 out of 7 panzer battalions, 3 out of 7 artillery battalions, 3 out of 5 recon battalions, 5 fighter squadrons, 4 tactical bomber squadrons and 3 strategic bomber squadrons. Now in Wladowa I can finally upgrade my 20 mm and 88 mm FlaK battalions to their up-to-date versions, though only their date changes and not their stats.

I thought we could change the stock limit in between scenarios but apparently not? I will probably reduce the limit to 15 when I start AO'40.

[rgreat]

double post

[rgreat]

5 times the amount for basic infantry seem like an overkill.

Yes, and I specially made it so.

Basic infantry in my opinion is the only resource you should almost never have shortages of.
Unless you are out of prestige, of course.
I don't want situations where you have prestige but cannot restock any of your basic due to no stock left.

That's why I set it at generous x5.

So even if you play at low stock setting (~10-15), basic infantry stock would still be at 50-75 per mission, so you would not run out of infantry.

But x3 could fit pretty fine too, I guess. Just in a bit different playstyle.

[article22]

Just finished SCW, 1939, 1941 and 1942 with limited deployment and while it presents some logistic challenges it doesn't really add to the difficulty much.

SCW is definitely pretty broken though and needs fixing...having no control over the Spanish infantry who have limited stock as well is bonkers as you see them charging into the enemy on 1 strength because they can't re-supply.
Also when you buy Italian units, they should not be destroyed at the end of the mission and you lose the stock.

Given the other bug with non standard German units, you can exploit it by having them in your inventory at the start of 1939 campaign and they gain infinite stock.
So I was using the 109B as my sencond line fighters all the way through 1939 until I had enough of the newer fighters in stock.

Agree with the previous posters about varying stock levels per mission with the unit type...I have like 300 AT guns at the end of 1939 and like 50 Pioneers.

Overall I like the option but it needs tweaking, especially in SCW.

[Bee1976]

having no control over the Spanish infantry who have limited stock as well

You can order them early to hold positions. That saves your precious prestige and their limited stock Form the frontline bring in support, and then let em charge for 2-3 turns.

SCW is really hard with limited stock and playing without mass captures. You will lose some of the inferior german hardware, and without cheap aux units this is a little harsh. Im playing on generalissimus diffictuly and im on 1940 mid DLC atm, and to be honest, after SCW i dont notice limited stock at all. normally i would tune down the amount of units you recieve per mission, but well the paratrooper problem....

What about some hardcore achievements instead like "dont lose more than 20 units of the same type during the complete SCW". That will force the player to use multiple units if he wants that achievement