Limited Stock Grand Campaign early impressions

[Scrapulous]

I have started my Limited Stock Grand Campaign playthrough at the Spanish Civil War. I'm enjoying it very much and I'm glad that the mode was implemented and that they took the time to sand off the rough spots for the recent patch.

Currently I'm at Early Madrid (scenario 5). Here are my impressions and tips so far:

1. I habitually play with Retrograde (new unit types becomes available 6 months later than normal). This is challenging when you start the SCW, because many German pieces are unavailable until later in the SCW. As of Toledo, at September 19, 1936, I am only receiving resupply of the Panzer IA, the 7.5cm and 10.5cm artillery, and the Rayo scout plane. Many of the basic units (recon, AA, AT, aircraft) appear only in July of 1936 by default and January of 1937 with Retrograde. That means the second scenario by default or the seventh scenario with Retrograde. Capturing equipment is absolutely vital. In scenario 5, Early Madrid, which takes place in November of '36, my fighter corps is limping.
2. I also play with Slow Modernization (can only upgrade 3 units per scenario). This adds management difficulty because the shifting supply situation means I often want to swap equipment out. Instead I buy new units with the equipment I need and put the more experienced but depleted crews into reserve. This is not a bad thing, since I will need more crews when my core capacity starts to expand, but it does make experience gain slower.
3. Field Repairs heroes are exceptionally good in these circumstances, because their repairs do not come from your stock of units.
4. Gift units are even better than normal because they have unlimited stock. This includes the 3 Ju 52 strategic bombers you get at Antequera. I have been using them as bait in the air war because I don't have much room to lose tactical bombers.
5. Auxiliary units are also constrained by Limited Stock, which I suspect curtails the value of the Auxiliary Force general trait (I'm not playing with it myself, but I'm having a hard time filling the default auxiliary space with Italian infantry). This is a bigger limit for auxiliaries than it is for your core forces, because by definition the auxiliaries disappear at the end of the scenario and the stock is not replenished with those units - it's as if they were destroyed.
6. There is a quirk here: Auxiliary forces that are given to you by the scenario (i.e. ones that are deployed on the map when the scenario starts) normally replenish from your auxiliary Limited Stock just like the aux units that you buy yourself. However, if the auxiliary unit is one you couldn't purchase yourself, it functions like a gift unit and has unlimited replacements. An example here is the auxiliary Italian flame tank you're given in the Merida scenario - you can play recklessly with it because you have unlimited replacements.

The tension that these changes have introduced to the SCW scenarios is transformative. It plays almost like a different game. Before, I would carelessly encircle enemy units with my german units, heedless of the losses I might incur, because it was absolutely worth it to take losses of my unlimited german materiel in order to secure precious and limited foreign units. Before, I would replenish german units in the middle of a scenario without a thought. Before, it was only house rules (only one of any type of unit deployed) which kept me from fielding only the best units in each category.

Now it's different. Now I am very careful about exposing my units. Now I'm not receiving aircraft resupply (yet), so I'm exceptionally cautious about the air war. Now I encircle enemies carefully. Now I have deployed the sub-par He 45 german biplane bomber because I am low on the superior Hs 123a biplanes. Now I am desperate to capture enemy aircraft. Now, before replenishment, I check my purchase screen to see how many units I have in stock - can I afford to replenish, or should I rotate this unit to the rear for the rest of the scenario? Can I even afford to do that with a core size of 40? Will I be able to capture enough enemy AA guns to form a full unit to replace the german-equipped unit that I carelessly allowed to take 4 losses? My sense of what I'm willing to sacrifice has shifted in a very welcome way.

I enjoy all of this very much. This is a better game, in my opinion. I feel much more like the commander of a volunteer force fighting in a foreign war than like I am a general of a country that is a full military ally of Spain with the full backing and might of the Heer and german industry behind me. I recommend it.

[terminator]

I have started my Limited Stock Grand Campaign playthrough at the Spanish Civil War. I'm enjoying it very much and I'm glad that the mode was implemented and that they took the time to sand off the rough spots for the recent patch.

[*] Field Repairs heroes are exceptionally good in these circumstances, because their repairs do not come from your stock of units.

Good to know but with only one recovery point per turn.

It would be nice to have the same type of Repairs heroes for other types of units as infantry units (Mechanized Repair Hero).

[GUNDOBALDO08]

I agree, limited stock is a very good idea introducing more and more strategical decision for players!

[GUNDOBALDO08]

It’s so good that IMO would be set as default option.

[DefiantXYX]

I am also enyoing this feature, but it gets needles with the time.
In 1939 it doesnt even matter. I got hundreds of T26 from SCW plus all the new tanks...you start with some different kinds of infantry, but soon enough you can go back to engineers only if you want. I never had a supply problem, even with denied artillery. The enemy is never attacking your planes, so I also have hundreds of BF 109 and Stuka in the stock. Not sure if the features is working as intendend. Is it ok, that there is no limit in the stock?

In my opinion the real balancing problem are the heroes. This time I got 2 zero slot heroes in SCW. This changes everything. If I want a hard campaign I have to delete them. But its very hard to punish yourself

[adiekmann]

I have started my Limited Stock Grand Campaign playthrough at the Spanish Civil War. I'm enjoying it very much and I'm glad that the mode was implemented and that they took the time to sand off the rough spots for the recent patch.

[*] Field Repairs heroes are exceptionally good in these circumstances, because their repairs do not come from your stock of units.

Good to know but with only one recovery point per turn.

It would be nice to have the same type of Repairs heroes for other types of units as infantry units (Mechanized Repair Hero).

There already is a repair hero for infantry called "First Aid," if that's what you mean. But what's sorely missing is one for aircraft. I think the existing Repair Hero should just be expanded to work on all vehicles including aerial.

[Scrapulous]

Good to know but with only one recovery point per turn.

It would be nice to have the same type of Repairs heroes for other types of units as infantry units (Mechanized Repair Hero).

First Aid does the same thing as Field Repairs, but for infantry. Field Repairs works on all non-infantry, non-aircraft (armor, recon, AT, AA, artillery). The only categories that I know of that lack a repair hero type are aircraft.

It’s so good that IMO would be set as default option.

There seem to be people who don't like the idea of this game mode, but I certainly won't go back to playing without it.

Not sure if the features is working as intendend. Is it ok, that there is no limit in the stock?

I suspect this is intended. It might make sense to put a cap on how many parts you can keep in your supply. I'm hoping to develop an opinion on this as I play through the AOs. One idea that occurs to me is adjusting the amount of resupply based on the amount in stock. So if you have 3 scenarios worth of items in your supply (60 by default), then you start getting resupply at half rate (10 per scenario at the default) until you have 5 scenarios worth (100 by default), and then at 25% rate (5 per scenario) until you have 6 scenarios worth (120). These are just example values, they could easily be adjusted.

I'm curious - did you try altering the slider to adjust how many parts are awarded?

Another way to address it in part might be for certain equipment types might be to allow some to be converted into others. If I knew I could convert old Panzer IBs into Panzerjagers and certain captured tanks into Marders, for instance, I would probably be willing to turn the resupply rate down from 20 to 10.

[VirgilInTheSKY]

Field Repairs works on all non-infantry, non-aircraft (armor, recon, AT, AA, artillery).

Field Repair won't work on towed guns, only self-propelled ones.

[Scrapulous]

Field Repairs works on all non-infantry, non-aircraft (armor, recon, AT, AA, artillery).

Field Repair won't work on towed guns, only self-propelled ones.

It works for my towed guns. I just tested it to be sure. Why do you think it doesn't work?

[terminator]

Good to know but with only one recovery point per turn.

It would be nice to have the same type of Repairs heroes for other types of units as infantry units (Mechanized Repair Hero).

First Aid does the same thing as Field Repairs, but for infantry. Field Repairs works on all non-infantry, non-aircraft (armor, recon, AT, AA, artillery). The only categories that I know of that lack a repair hero type are aircraft.

I haven’t got that hero yet

[Mateusz300]

Guys, if I choose limited stock option, my opponent has also limited stock

[DefiantXYX]

Guys, if I choose limited stock option, my opponent has also limited stock

Dont think so. In the campaigns the AI stops to repair when its out of prestige. From my experiences there is unlimited stock.

[Edmon]

I am so happy to hear you guys are enjoying this feature .

[adiekmann]

Decided to post some of my early impressions as well.

I did not want to replay all of SCW (few heroes, low exp, weak units...it's still the hardest DLC for me), but I wasn't too far into AO39 to restart with Limited Stock.

I am at the first Polish scenario now, and have to say after a tight start it's not too bad. I did set it at 30 which was probably a mistake but I'm not going back now. Playing at FM difficulty and probably could have done GM as well. Well, AO40 then!

As long as you're careful, you will have plenty of stock after a few maps. I think I'd actually find "The Collector" challenge more of a challenge because no matter how careful or good you are you will never be allowed two units of the same type. It will also as a side-effect limit the overall size of your core, unless you make extra-liberal use of captured equipment. But I haven't played with that mode yet and I'm still early in AO39 so things could eventually change my perspective. Time will tell.

In the end I appreciate the goal that Edmon is trying to achieve here which is to force the player to diversify their core and not just build a almighty dream team. One of my favorite PG2 campaigns was a user-made DAK campaign that I played nearly 20 years ago. It tried to accomplish the same thing with "rules" which the designer had no real way of forcing the player to follow, but it made the campaign very enjoyable. It limited your core in size and composition to better reflect history. It was awesome!

[Edmon]

Decided to post some of my early impressions as well.

I did not want to replay all of SCW (few heroes, low exp, weak units...it's still the hardest DLC for me), but I wasn't too far into AO39 to restart with Limited Stock.

I am at the first Polish scenario now, and have to say after a tight start it's not too bad. I did set it at 30 which was probably a mistake but I'm not going back now. Playing at FM difficulty and probably could have done GM as well. Well, AO40 then!

As long as you're careful, you will have plenty of stock after a few maps. I think I'd actually find "The Collector" challenge more of a challenge because no matter how careful or good you are you will never be allowed two units of the same type. It will also as a side-effect limit the overall size of your core, unless you make extra-liberal use of captured equipment. But I haven't played with that mode yet and I'm still early in AO39 so things could eventually change my perspective. Time will tell.

In the end I appreciate the goal that Edmon is trying to achieve here which is to force the player to diversify their core and not just build a almighty dream team. One of my favorite PG2 campaigns was a user-made DAK campaign that I played nearly 20 years ago. It tried to accomplish the same thing with "rules" which the designer had no real way of forcing the player to follow, but it made the campaign very enjoyable. It limited your core in size and composition to better reflect history. It was awesome!

You can tune it after a completed mission. I think 30 is going to likely not constrain you very hard. I set myself to 15 to show off the feature and I've honestly not struggled too much... I think I could go down as few as 10 or 5... just to try and make things more tricky. I am sitting on nearly 200 of every infantry type in my current campaign...

[adiekmann]

Decided to post some of my early impressions as well.

I did not want to replay all of SCW (few heroes, low exp, weak units...it's still the hardest DLC for me), but I wasn't too far into AO39 to restart with Limited Stock.

I am at the first Polish scenario now, and have to say after a tight start it's not too bad. I did set it at 30 which was probably a mistake but I'm not going back now. Playing at FM difficulty and probably could have done GM as well. Well, AO40 then!

As long as you're careful, you will have plenty of stock after a few maps. I think I'd actually find "The Collector" challenge more of a challenge because no matter how careful or good you are you will never be allowed two units of the same type. It will also as a side-effect limit the overall size of your core, unless you make extra-liberal use of captured equipment. But I haven't played with that mode yet and I'm still early in AO39 so things could eventually change my perspective. Time will tell.

In the end I appreciate the goal that Edmon is trying to achieve here which is to force the player to diversify their core and not just build a almighty dream team. One of my favorite PG2 campaigns was a user-made DAK campaign that I played nearly 20 years ago. It tried to accomplish the same thing with "rules" which the designer had no real way of forcing the player to follow, but it made the campaign very enjoyable. It limited your core in size and composition to better reflect history. It was awesome!

You can tune it after a completed mission. I think 30 is going to likely not constrain you very hard. I set myself to 15 to show off the feature and I've honestly not struggled too much... I think I could go down as few as 10 or 5... just to try and make things more tricky. I am sitting on nearly 200 of every infantry type in my current campaign...

So, do you have an all Pioniere infantry corps once again?

[Edmon]

Decided to post some of my early impressions as well.

I did not want to replay all of SCW (few heroes, low exp, weak units...it's still the hardest DLC for me), but I wasn't too far into AO39 to restart with Limited Stock.

I am at the first Polish scenario now, and have to say after a tight start it's not too bad. I did set it at 30 which was probably a mistake but I'm not going back now. Playing at FM difficulty and probably could have done GM as well. Well, AO40 then!

As long as you're careful, you will have plenty of stock after a few maps. I think I'd actually find "The Collector" challenge more of a challenge because no matter how careful or good you are you will never be allowed two units of the same type. It will also as a side-effect limit the overall size of your core, unless you make extra-liberal use of captured equipment. But I haven't played with that mode yet and I'm still early in AO39 so things could eventually change my perspective. Time will tell.

In the end I appreciate the goal that Edmon is trying to achieve here which is to force the player to diversify their core and not just build a almighty dream team. One of my favorite PG2 campaigns was a user-made DAK campaign that I played nearly 20 years ago. It tried to accomplish the same thing with "rules" which the designer had no real way of forcing the player to follow, but it made the campaign very enjoyable. It limited your core in size and composition to better reflect history. It was awesome!

You can tune it after a completed mission. I think 30 is going to likely not constrain you very hard. I set myself to 15 to show off the feature and I've honestly not struggled too much... I think I could go down as few as 10 or 5... just to try and make things more tricky. I am sitting on nearly 200 of every infantry type in my current campaign...

So, do you have an all Pioniere infantry corps once again?

Not using a lot of infantry at the moment (in 1941 at the moment and still have 1942 to play), because the maps have mostly been open spaces. I've been using the 2x Azul Infantry squads and 1x Pioneer squad (except Crete, where I obviously used a ton of Paras).

Infantry pressure will likely come when we switch to "late war" infantry and things become close combat slogfests, that's when the massive pile of standard infantry will be obsolete at just the moment when you start switching to a 50/50 tanks to infantry ratio, rather than 20/80 that open spaces require...

[Tassadar]

[*] I also play with Slow Modernization (can only upgrade 3 units per scenario). This adds management difficulty because the shifting supply situation means I often want to swap equipment out. Instead I buy new units with the equipment I need and put the more experienced but depleted crews into reserve. This is not a bad thing, since I will need more crews when my core capacity starts to expand, but it does make experience gain slower.

This actually seems extra spicy. One thing I noticed about this mode seeing Edmon's 1941 campaign so far was that if you're doing well, you might not even notice that some of the units have that limited stock. Sure it will probably show on infantry and recons more often, but otherwise it is more manageable with captures and per mission supply and even if one units needs runs dry for a mission or two, there's zero price to pay for upgrading it temporarily to something else. Slow Modernization seems like a decent equalizer, since even on a good run some parts are bound to run short and then there's even more encouragement to get some green troops or reserve units into the field.

[Scrapulous]

An update: I just finished the Spanish Civil War and imported my core to AO'39. The faction change from SCW to AO'39 is a little bumpy. There is a lot of equipment that is part of the Condor Legion faction but not part of the DE faction. There is some odd behavior with this equipment:

• Any Condor-Legion-only equipment is discarded when you import a Condor Legion save into a DE AO campaign. So if you had a stockpile of Bf-109Bs in your equipment pool at the end of Madrid, they will be destroyed. This is a disadvantage.
• Any deployed or reserve units (equipment that has been formed into a unit, basically) of this type will remain.
• Because the equipment doesn't exist for your faction, you have unlimited replacements for the deployed/reserve units of this type. This could be an advantage if you're constrained by your limited stock of German equipment: you could play recklessly and bait the AI with your unlimited Condor Legion equipment as long as you don't let the entire unit get wiped out.
• On the other hand, if you disband any of your deployed/reserve units of this type, the equipment does not return to your stockpile, it is simply destroyed. This is a disadvantage. I had hoped that the equipment would appear as captured equipment, but it does not, it's just gone.
• Equipment that is common to CL and DE factions behaves as expected: disbanding a SdKfz 231 6Rad unit that was formed in Spain, for instance, adds 11 pieces to my stockpile.

I imagine this is not exactly working as intended, but I suppose it's easy enough to rationalize by saying that the Condor Legion had to return a lot of their equipment to the proving grounds after the SCW was over.

The equipment that belongs to the CL faction but not the DE faction:

• PanzerIIA, armor
• SdKfz221, recon
• PanzerIBreda, AT
• 2cmFlaK30AA, AA/AT
• 37mmFlaK18AA, AA/AT
• 88mmFlaK18AA, AA/AT (this one hurts!)
• He51, fighter
• Bf109B, fighter
• He112, fighter
• Bf108, air transport
• He70, tactical bomber
• He123, tactical bomber
• He45, tactical bomber
• Ju87A, tactical bomber
• Ju52Bomber, strategic bomber
• Ju86, strategic bomber

These items will never appear in your stockpile after SCW, and if you lose or upgrade your units of this type, you will not get the equipment back.

[*] I also play with Slow Modernization (can only upgrade 3 units per scenario). This adds management difficulty because the shifting supply situation means I often want to swap equipment out. Instead I buy new units with the equipment I need and put the more experienced but depleted crews into reserve. This is not a bad thing, since I will need more crews when my core capacity starts to expand, but it does make experience gain slower.

This actually seems extra spicy. One thing I noticed about this mode seeing Edmon's 1941 campaign so far was that if you're doing well, you might not even notice that some of the units have that limited stock. Sure it will probably show on infantry and recons more often, but otherwise it is more manageable with captures and per mission supply and even if one units needs runs dry for a mission or two, there's zero price to pay for upgrading it temporarily to something else. Slow Modernization seems like a decent equalizer, since even on a good run some parts are bound to run short and then there's even more encouragement to get some green troops or reserve units into the field.

You're right. It's a great general trait. After my first run through SCW, I have never run a campaign without it, because it also adds a hefty cost to doing gamey things like farming medals by swapping crews into rapid fire tanks, or upgrading tanks to recons to get Steamroller armored cars. If I don't limit myself, I'll pull all kinds of tricks like that and wind up with super soldiers by the end of 1939. So on top of all that, the fact that it inhibits me from just giving my best crews whatever equipment is abundant is another benefit. I recommend playing Limited Stock with it.


Edit: I originally omitted the PzIIA and the SdKfz 221 from the list of CL-only equipment. Fixed.

[calmhatchery]

Limited stock changed this game. For me personally this is great feauture. I didint expect that devs will find some key to make the better gameplay. Today I can give this game a better ranking ! At least the old equipment are more usefull which is I like very much.
Im very interesting of Pacific DLC and sea battles with the new mechanic. All makes this game better nad better.