charging again
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charging again
I have a feeling this might be common question, or it might be something I made up.
A BG gets charged from a 45 degree angle. NOT a flank charge.
one charging element contacts a file's front corner. so far, so good - this is a 2 dice vs 2 dice impact fight.
however another element of the charging BG steps forward such that it contacts the rear element of that same file on its flank edge.
my question
does that steped forward contact count, making it a 4 dice vs 2 dice impact fight?
or is it a 4 dice vs 4 dice impact fight?
or does the steped forward contact not count at all, because that file has been already hit?
does any of ths change if the rear element is support shooting?
A BG gets charged from a 45 degree angle. NOT a flank charge.
one charging element contacts a file's front corner. so far, so good - this is a 2 dice vs 2 dice impact fight.
however another element of the charging BG steps forward such that it contacts the rear element of that same file on its flank edge.
my question
does that steped forward contact count, making it a 4 dice vs 2 dice impact fight?
or is it a 4 dice vs 4 dice impact fight?
or does the steped forward contact not count at all, because that file has been already hit?
does any of ths change if the rear element is support shooting?
Re: charging again
you can only have one base fighting one base in impact. No overlaps and no extra bases in... so the unit coulnd't step forward.stefoid wrote:I have a feeling this might be common question, or it might be something I made up.
A BG gets charged from a 45 degree angle. NOT a flank charge.
one charging element contacts a file's front corner. so far, so good - this is a 2 dice vs 2 dice impact fight.
however another element of the charging BG steps forward such that it contacts the rear element of that same file on its flank edge.
my question
does that steped forward contact count, making it a 4 dice vs 2 dice impact fight?
or is it a 4 dice vs 4 dice impact fight?
or does the steped forward contact not count at all, because that file has been already hit?
does any of ths change if the rear element is support shooting?
Ian
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Sorry Daisho I believe you are wrong. If the second charging base contacts a different base then you fight with 2 bases against 2 bases, i.e probably 4 die versus 4 die. The factors for the target are factors of the front rank base. The second base MUST step forward into contact if it fulfills all the criteria for doing so.
As this is not a flank charge in the manouver phase the chargers move to conform to the front rank base of the target.
Andre
As this is not a flank charge in the manouver phase the chargers move to conform to the front rank base of the target.
Andre
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Each pair of opposing bases in contact roll dice. If the stepped forward base had hit a base already contacted dice would not be rolled, since it hit a different base the stepped forward and the contacted base both roll dice as if hit at the front of the file. so 4 v 4 dice at POA's as if a frontal contact.
As recently discussed on another thread, the contact on the second rank base is exactly as if the contact was on the front rank base. For example, if there is a bow base behind a spear base, the factors are worked out as if two spear bases, each with a bow base behind were contacted. No advantage is gained from contacting the side of a rear base, except to have an extra set of dice rolled by each side. This prevents anyone looking to gain from angled charges such as this.
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After impact, how would the chargers shift to conform (assuming space permits). My guess is that the base that hit the corner of the front rank base would shift to conform to the corner base frontally. But this does seem a little odd in that it would then leave fewer bases in contact (one vs two) than fought in impact. With overlaps there would still be the same number of files fighting so this may still have the right effect. I guess it does mean that the angled charge does give the charger a good way to maximize the number of bases in impact against a larger opponent without ending up figthing more opposing bases in melee due to being overlapped.
Chris
Chris
The chargers will indeed conform back to frontal contact with an overlap.batesmotel wrote:After impact, how would the chargers shift to conform (assuming space permits). My guess is that the base that hit the corner of the front rank base would shift to conform to the corner base frontally. But this does seem a little odd in that it would then leave fewer bases in contact (one vs two) than fought in impact. With overlaps there would still be the same number of files fighting so this may still have the right effect. I guess it does mean that the angled charge does give the charger a good way to maximize the number of bases in impact against a larger opponent without ending up figthing more opposing bases in melee due to being overlapped.
Chris
The charged BG will then have the option of feeding in more bases so it rarely makes much difference.
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Hmm, you'r right. That is not the way I have played this but it would appear that while nice and tidy there is a subtle difference. I am not sure if conforming stepped forwards would make much of a difference but I live and learn.TERRYFROMSPOKANE wrote:I like your response, Hammy but doesn't it disagree with the lower diagram on p72 where the charging file that contacted the 2nd rank of the target's right hand file is shown lining up on the flank edge of the target BG and still in contact with the 2nd rank of the target's end file?
Terry G.
Good spot.
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You're not the first person to miss this Hammy - it's regularly overlooked as players tend to want to conform.I like your response, Hammy but doesn't it disagree with the lower diagram on p72 where the charging file that contacted the 2nd rank of the target's right hand file is shown lining up on the flank edge of the target BG and still in contact with the 2nd rank of the target's end file?
Pete
Each base in contact will move by the minimum distance to a valid full frontal contact or to a valid overlap. So the base hitting the rear rank enemy base will pivot and then slide so that it is in overlap, maintaining at least corner to corner contact with the rest of its BG. If that is impossible then the BG will fight unconformed.
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That's a fuller description of 'Conform as best as you can'Each base in contact will move by the minimum distance to a valid full frontal contact or to a valid overlap. So the base hitting the rear rank enemy base will pivot and then slide so that it is in overlap, maintaining at least corner to corner contact with the rest of its BG. If that is impossible then the BG will fight unconformed.

Thanks Gozerius
Pete
You all seem to be there now.
Indeed you conform the files by the minimum to get to lined-up or an overlap as long s there is space to do so (and you shift your own troops to make toom), and don't move but fight as if you had if there isn't room.
On Rogers points, the very reason we have made all side edge contacts as if on the front is to avoid cheese. You are not far enough round to be a real flank threat bearing in mind:
1) the Bg has several units in it - it is not a rigid set of 4 bases
2) the edge ones would be reacting in real time whereas we gamers are limited to te abstraction of alternate moves
All you are getting as a benefit is 4 vs 4 which gives more even results than 2 vs 2, and can get you 4 hits of course. So in practice if you are on a + or want to try to get more hits to affect CTs its worth going for more dice if you can; but we don't want it fought as anything but a normal frontal combat.
The troops are not where the metal figures are precisely! hope that helps.
Si
Indeed you conform the files by the minimum to get to lined-up or an overlap as long s there is space to do so (and you shift your own troops to make toom), and don't move but fight as if you had if there isn't room.
On Rogers points, the very reason we have made all side edge contacts as if on the front is to avoid cheese. You are not far enough round to be a real flank threat bearing in mind:
1) the Bg has several units in it - it is not a rigid set of 4 bases
2) the edge ones would be reacting in real time whereas we gamers are limited to te abstraction of alternate moves
All you are getting as a benefit is 4 vs 4 which gives more even results than 2 vs 2, and can get you 4 hits of course. So in practice if you are on a + or want to try to get more hits to affect CTs its worth going for more dice if you can; but we don't want it fought as anything but a normal frontal combat.
The troops are not where the metal figures are precisely! hope that helps.
Si
Simon Hall
"May your dice roll 6s (unless ye be poor)"
"May your dice roll 6s (unless ye be poor)"