Over priced Xbow

richafricanus · Post by **richafricanus** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:43 pm

Is it just me or are foot crossbows not worth it if you can choose any other LF? You pay a premium for them over javelin but the same as for bow yet they almost always shoot at a minus. It would seem fairer had they been a point cheaper than ordinary bow. Similarly mounted crossbows don't feel worth paying a point more for than mounted javelins or firearms.

Robert241167 · Post by **Robert241167** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:57 pm

Hi there

I would agree with you in most cases but in my current army to take to the Britcon medieval tournament I am considering 2 BG's of 6 LF crossbow.

Needing 4's to hit heavily armoured knights they have a fair chance of forcing a cohesion test with 3 shooting from 1 BG. If I can gang up with 2 BG's then they could have 6 shooting needing 4's.

This means that the heavily armoured knights are going to be more inclined to charge and push them out of the way hopefully bringing them onto my spears piecemeal.

That's the plan anyway.

Rob

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:57 pm

If you face heavily armoured knights then they are as good as longbow but cheaper so are a bargain. Against any other cavalry they're OK. Against foot they are rubbish.
In a medieval themed tournament or historical match-up I would say they're worth having. For an open theme I wouldn't want any crossbow.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:06 pm

Polkovnik wrote:If you face heavily armoured knights then they are as good as longbow but cheaper so are a bargain. Against any other cavalry they're OK. Against foot they are rubbish.
In a medieval themed tournament or historical match-up I would say they're worth having. For an open theme I wouldn't want any crossbow.

They are also as good as bow against armoured foot.

I find crossbow cavalry to be worth the points, most of the time they will be shooting other cavalry anyway.

For me, foot crossbow are better than javelinmen simply because of the much greater range. Given the choice I would probably take bow but crossbow have their uses. If they were 4 1/2 points rather than 5 then it would probably be better but you can't have everything.

Lycanthropic · Post by **Lycanthropic** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:42 pm

I run my Xbow in drilled protected 4's, so 28 point BG's. These are SO overpriced i want them changed...honestly, they kill knights and cataphracts, not to mention multch elephants like office shredders on a regular basis for 28 points, thats WAY overpriced........
At the end of the day crossbow shoot all foot on 5's and all mounted (except Elephants) on 4's. Which is very cost effective, where they lack is the absence of quality melee capabilities and armed with xbow.......MF, Armoured, Xbow anyone? (Genose pavise crossbowmen in chainmail with small windowless buildings strapped to their backs should be considered armoured) this is ERRRAAAATTTTAAAAAA!!!!!!!

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:01 pm

I agree Crossbow seem very vulnerable in close combat. they tend not to have enough firepower to stave off foes so usually will see close combat.

but the MF protect Crossbow are pretty decent against marauding enemy LH and such.

Are their many historical examples oof dense (MF) formation of corssbow getting into close combat?

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:12 pm

Lycanthropic wrote:I run my Xbow in drilled protected 4's, so 28 point BG's. These are SO overpriced i want them changed...honestly, they kill knights and cataphracts, not to mention multch elephants like office shredders on a regular basis for 28 points, thats WAY overpriced........

You mean either UNDERPRICED or OVERPOWERED.

Lycanthropic · Post by **Lycanthropic** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:36 am

Either way, Richanus shouldn't give up on crossbow, I think they're excellent.

shall · Post by **shall** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:51 am

As you are all saying, Xbow's value depends a lot on what you re up against - perhaps more than any other weapon type.

If you face and army of cataphracts, mounted Xbow are superb - as I once found out to my cost. Against a mounted army they are good in general - wait for the chinese. Against anything H Arm they are excellent value.

Vs a swarm of Ancient Britons - near worthless alas!

Si

richafricanus · Post by **richafricanus** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:36 pm

Lycanthropic wrote:At the end of the day crossbow shoot all foot on 5's and all mounted (except Elephants) on 4's.

Now you see what happens when you don't read your rules properly. We've been playing crossbow shoot mounted on 5's (don't ask me why) but reading what you've said above this definitely makes them more effective than I thought (at least against mounted). There, now they're not cross anymore...

Lycanthropic · Post by **Lycanthropic** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:24 am

Si, please don't tease about the cheese of the chinese! Don't say we'll finally see some xbow armed foot with combat capabilities ? MF, Prot, Xbow, HW perchance? OR how about MF, Arm, Xbow, Def Spear? That'll really send shockwaves through the community, not since roman and swarm and winning were mentioned in the same sentence have you seen so many white men gasp, ok, maybe not since they cancelled M.A.S.H.

ottomanmjm · Post by **ottomanmjm** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:45 am

The later Medieval Swedish with their mixed BG's of HF,Arm,H Wpn and MF,Arm,Xbow can be quite devaststing as my Ottomans found out - ouch

DaiSho · Post by **DaiSho** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:47 am

Polkovnik wrote:If you face heavily armoured knights then they are as good as longbow but cheaper so are a bargain. Against any other cavalry they're OK. Against foot they are rubbish.
In a medieval themed tournament or historical match-up I would say they're worth having. For an open theme I wouldn't want any crossbow.

I think it really depends on too many variables. For instance, Medieval Danes are 'expensive' but pretty damned good. They have a fairly poor chance of actually doing anything against foot, but there is a chance. They add dice against both foot and mounted in impact with a bugger all chance of going anything bu there is a chance. When the front rank dies they have a sword and a shyte load of armour.

Now, by comparison 6 Crossbow armed light infantry vs 6 bow armed light infantry are just asking for an unfortunate result, but they might get lucky.

Ian

marioslaz · Post by **marioslaz** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:58 am

shall wrote:As you are all saying, Xbow's value depends a lot on what you re up against - perhaps more than any other weapon type.

If you face and army of cataphracts, mounted Xbow are superb - as I once found out to my cost. Against a mounted army they are good in general - wait for the chinese. Against anything H Arm they are excellent value.

Vs a swarm of Ancient Britons - near worthless alas!

This is one of the reasons so I am for historical match-up. People wouldn't have developed weapons without effects against their foes.