I have a question RE: Air Force Denied

[Kerensky]

To the players who play with this trait:

What happens when you encounter missions that are extremely aircraft orientated?

We've only seen a few of these scenarios so far, the most notable ones in the Axis Operations are Dunkirk and Dover. Outside of the obvious safety measure we put in place where there is no MANDATORY air only scenario...

Do you have a small scattering of aircraft you have acquire from other sources to get you through these scenarios?
Is it important to continue to feed players with supplies of captured Allied aircraft, so even with Denied Air Force blocking purchase of German aircraft, you still have some option to work with?

Let me know. I may or may not need info to plan... future... stuff. No spoilers.

[BaronVonKrieg]

To the players who play with this trait:

What happens when you encounter missions that are extremely aircraft orientated?

We've only seen a few of these scenarios so far, the most notable ones in the Axis Operations are Dunkirk and Dover. Outside of the obvious safety measure we put in place where there is no MANDATORY air only scenario...

Do you have a small scattering of aircraft you have acquire from other sources to get you through these scenarios?
Is it important to continue to feed players with supplies of captured Allied aircraft, so even with Denied Air Force blocking purchase of German aircraft, you still have some option to work with?

Let me know. I may or may not need info to plan... future... stuff. No spoilers.

i smell some channel dash shenanigans

[adiekmann]

To the players who play with this trait:

What happens when you encounter missions that are extremely aircraft orientated?

We've only seen a few of these scenarios so far, the most notable ones in the Axis Operations are Dunkirk and Dover. Outside of the obvious safety measure we put in place where there is no MANDATORY air only scenario...

Do you have a small scattering of aircraft you have acquire from other sources to get you through these scenarios?
Is it important to continue to feed players with supplies of captured Allied aircraft, so even with Denied Air Force blocking purchase of German aircraft, you still have some option to work with?

Let me know. I may or may not need info to plan... future... stuff. No spoilers.

I have always played AO40 with Denied Air Force and it wasn't a problem.

I planned ahead. I bought additional Fighters in '39 and kept them in reserve. I rotate them with the original three imported from Spain. Denied Air Force prevents you from buying and upgrading to new German core units, but not prototypes and captured units. It doesn't even block you from getting reinforcements for existing ones.

My rationale was this: You only get the Bf 109F late in '40, so I can live with only the 109E. I upgraded my strat bombers to the Ju 88 at Denmark so I am good to go there as well. And finally, the Ju 87R doesn't come out until '41 I believe, and even if not, there is a very marginal difference between it and the B version anyway. I can still upgrade my fighters to any prototype or captured aircraft, so denied air force isn't really that big of a deal, depending on the campaign and whether you planned accordingly.

So...Dunkirk scenario I deployed 6 Bf 109Es, two Bf 110Cs, two Ju 87Bs, the Il-2 from Warsaw, and two Ju 88s. I am more limited by the core slots and how many zero/reduced slot heroes I have. Denied Air Force was a not a factor.

[Kerensky]

i smell some channel dash shenanigans

Why would you think I might be interested an event that took place in WW2 that never seems to appear in any other WW2 game, despite how many WW2 games there are?

Err. I mean...

[Tassadar]

While I'm not exactly playing with Denied Airforce, the Panzermon AAR with just captured equipment (where possible) is very similar to that concept, and it was especially like that in initial stages. It seems to me that as the amount and variance of what is given increases it also becomes more interesting especially in 1941 - I am really looking forward to using some of those new British and Soviet planes, especially since now there's a larger variety of them and they seem more valid including more tactical bombers and strategic bombers. It of course needs to be rare since otherwise Denied Airforce stops being Denied Airforce at all, but the balance achieved right now is about right I think, at least for General level - even if one would swap Denied Airforce for AA veteran entirely and not get upgrades/new planes beyond those extra captures or prototypes.

Looking at specific scenarios:

1. Dunkirk - probably the hardest to do with Denied Airforce and if no preparations were done in AO 1939 by the player, borderline impossible. Just some D.520 won't get the job done and the Fokker D.XXI is a bit of a meme.
2. Dover - much better, since the player just needs to provide cover for a few turns before landing and worst case scenario can use obsolete planes as barrage balloons...
3. Operation Mercury - Probably doable with just swarms of paratroopers and zero planes, but would be prestige draining and require setup.

Aside from those factors I think just the idea of giving players options is great for increasing customization, replay value and inspiring ideas. Even if it's purely cosmetic like the Toldi tank in 1941 which is stat identical to the German tanks also available and as such has purely cosmetic value.

If anything, a good idea would be to set these extra awards/captures close before those air only scenarios to make sure that this minimal support can be given to those who want it, even if it limits this to single mission use by limited supply. It was already done with the D.520 and Hurricanes, so keeping this trend seems fine.

[Kerensky]

Aside from those factors I think just the idea of giving players options is great for increasing customization, replay value and inspiring ideas. Even if it's purely cosmetic like the Toldi tank in 1941 which is stat identical to the German tanks also available and as such has purely cosmetic value.

RE: Toldi

I thought about requesting a stat change... but then I noticed some other things. And it seems to be a pretty interesting angle to work with, so ultimately I left it alone. There is probably a development in this regard though. No spoilers.

[Vorskl]

To the players who play with this trait:

What happens when you encounter missions that are extremely aircraft orientated?

We've only seen a few of these scenarios so far, the most notable ones in the Axis Operations are Dunkirk and Dover. Outside of the obvious safety measure we put in place where there is no MANDATORY air only scenario...

Do you have a small scattering of aircraft you have acquire from other sources to get you through these scenarios?
Is it important to continue to feed players with supplies of captured Allied aircraft, so even with Denied Air Force blocking purchase of German aircraft, you still have some option to work with?

Let me know. I may or may not need info to plan... future... stuff. No spoilers.

That's the problem. You have to play DLCs, build a mental map of what you need where, and then replay again.
Like I am replaying the campaign now, I know that DCL 1940 is heavy on planes and infantry/paras back-n-forth conversion, so in DCL1939 I took denied airforce but enabled arty to stockpile it Edmon's style; in DCL1940 I am using Denied Arty (probably till 1945) but enabled Aviation and did not pick Slow Modernization

[Wolfenguard]

is this a bug? when the galland event dont trigger in the SCW Campaign with the denied air force trait`?

[BarbarianHunter]

Overstrength the older models & not worry about it. In my latest playthrough I ran denied artillery with active air force in 39, upgraded as well as bought a bunch of planes for reserve.
*Stacked heroes w/ Force Concentration

Had 6 planes @ Dunkirk (x3 109E's x2 87B's & x1 recon plane) & managed to get 3 of the 4 bonus objectives.

Dunkirk2.2.jpg (480.19 KiB) Viewed 1668 times

Had 3 109E's @ Dover. Didn't lose any units @ sea. Some damage from bombing but nothing overly concerning.

Dover.jpg (337.46 KiB) Viewed 1667 times