Charged in the flank

HansJansen · Post by **HansJansen** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:53 am

Hi,

When a battle group is charged in the flank, we played that it immediately drop a cohesion level. This means that during impact it probably drops another, and during melee rout. When I read the rules again it said may drop a level p55. Does this mean that because of the ++ and -- poa it is likely that it will drop in impact, or does it mean that it drops a level just because it is charged in the flank/rear

Thanks.

Hans Jansen

Robert241167 · Post by **Robert241167** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:55 am

Hi Hans Jensen

The battle group immediately drops a level when charged in the flank by another appropriate battle group. It is then possible to drop a maximum of 2 levels in the impact phase as well as in the melee phase if the battle group scores 2 or less on its cohesion test after receiving 2 more hits than inflicted in that phase. Other events around it such as breaking battle groups or commanders being lost can only make it drop a level.

Hope that helps.

Rob

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:22 am

Don't have the rules immediately to hand but think you are wrong on your last point in that rolling for loss of a commander or friends routing can also drop two levels if you roll a 2 or less. Only shooting is free from the two drop level.
John

Robert241167 · Post by **Robert241167** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:05 am

Sorry John, my error, much to my dismay in a recent game.

So other events such as friends breaking or commanders being lost can lead to drops of 2 levels.

Cheers

Rob

MCollett · Post by **MCollett** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:25 am

HansJansen wrote:When a battle group is charged in the flank, we played that it immediately drop a cohesion level. This means that during impact it probably drops another, and during melee rout. When I read the rules again it said may drop a level p55. Does this mean that because of the ++ and -- poa it is likely that it will drop in impact, or does it mean that it drops a level just because it is charged in the flank/rear

The reason it says 'may' is that the drop does not occur for non-skirmishers contacted by skirmishers (see p.56). Otherwise it is immediate; any cohesion loss from failing tests after the impact combat is additional.

Best wishes,
Matthew

HansJansen · Post by **HansJansen** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:30 pm

So theoretically you can drop 3 levels in impact. One from being charged in the flank, then two for loosing impact combat and rolling bad on your cohesion test. This sort of happen to me and it seemed like more than a double whammy.

Robert241167 · Post by **Robert241167** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:39 pm

That is the case.

Rob

Andy1972 · Post by **Andy1972** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:40 pm

Don't get charged in the flank.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:39 am

Don't get charged in the flank.

Excellent advice!!

Pete

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:48 am

HansJansen wrote:So theoretically you can drop 3 levels in impact. One from being charged in the flank, then two for loosing impact combat and rolling bad on your cohesion test. This sort of happen to me and it seemed like more than a double whammy.

It can indeed happen that way.

It normally needs the flank charge to hit 2 bases so as to get a 4 dice to 3 dice impact at ++ which maximises the chance of winning by 2 hits and even then to double drop the BG hit in the flank will have to roll a 5 or less on its CT so it is not likely but is possible.

I think I have had my charging BG disrupted at impact on a flank charge more often than I have broken the enemy from steady in one charge. I am sure that I have had more instances where I have hit enemy in the flank with lancers and all that happened was the auto dissrupt. In one game I hit the same enemy BG in the flank in two consecutive impact phases and it was only fragmented when the dust settled

marioslaz · Post by **marioslaz** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:49 am

hammy wrote:I think I have had my charging BG disrupted at impact on a flank charge more often than I have broken the enemy from steady in one charge. I am sure that I have had more instances where I have hit enemy in the flank with lancers and all that happened was the auto dissrupt. In one game I hit the same enemy BG in the flank in two consecutive impact phases and it was only fragmented when the dust settled

So I'm the only who succeeded to loose when I charge both front and flank of an enemy?

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:47 pm

Yes, charges in the flank can be devastating, especially if (as Hammy says) you have 2 bases fighting at impact. If you only have one base fighting at impact (eg charging one-deep knights in the flank) then there is much less chance of further cohesion losses.
However, don't make the mistake of thinking that a BG of cavalry charging knights in the flank is a likely victory for the cavalry. Unless I can follow it up with another attack from a different direction, I wouldn't charge knights in the flank with cavalry unless I have numbers on my side - which means at least 6 cavalry charging the knights so they'll have an overlap on one side (after the knights have turned & expanded) on the first round of melee. Even then it's still risky for the cavalry. Knights are tough and can fight back from a flank charge and win.
The same goes for any flank charges on a large BG of quality troops with good POAs. Don't assume that an unsupported flank charge by inferior troops will win just because it's a flank attack.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:22 pm

marioslaz wrote:
hammy wrote:I think I have had my charging BG disrupted at impact on a flank charge more often than I have broken the enemy from steady in one charge. I am sure that I have had more instances where I have hit enemy in the flank with lancers and all that happened was the auto dissrupt. In one game I hit the same enemy BG in the flank in two consecutive impact phases and it was only fragmented when the dust settled
So I'm the only who succeeded to loose when I charge both front and flank of an enemy?

I had one worse than that at the recent IWF. I had a unit of lancer cav catch an evading BG of Lf, so impact was 4 dice at ++ against his 2 dice at --. By the end of my turn my lancers were running away.

Marc

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:29 pm

babyshark wrote: I had one worse than that at the recent IWF. I had a unit of lancer cav catch an evading BG of Lf, so impact was 4 dice at ++ against his 2 dice at --. By the end of my turn my lancers were running away.

Ouch!

I have managed that over a slightly longer period with a BG of disrupted light horse that evaded and was caught from behind by an enemy light horse BG. I dropped to fragmented, the impact had no effect, I won the melee (I was superior swordsmen, he wasn't), they disrupted, next turn they fragmented and lost a base then I bolstered.....

kal5056 · Post by **kal5056** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:38 pm

In a recent game I had a BG of LF caught in the rear by a BG of LH.
I disrupted from rear hit and fraged in the Impact.
I then went on a tear or 4 straight rounds of draws inwhich I brought a general over to bolster and a second BG of LF to charge the flank of the LH.

Next thing I know I am steady, the LH are Disr and fighting in 2 direction. They then break and run.

Of course I planned this. Suckered him into that rear charge to tie him up. LOL
We now call that move "The Gino"
Gino
SMAC

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:11 pm

babyshark wrote:
I had one worse than that at the recent IWF. I had a unit of lancer cav catch an evading BG of Lf, so impact was 4 dice at ++ against his 2 dice at --. By the end of my turn my lancers were running away.

I told you you had a bad army design.

marioslaz · Post by **marioslaz** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:50 am

babyshark wrote:
marioslaz wrote:
hammy wrote:I think I have had my charging BG disrupted at impact on a flank charge more often than I have broken the enemy from steady in one charge. I am sure that I have had more instances where I have hit enemy in the flank with lancers and all that happened was the auto dissrupt. In one game I hit the same enemy BG in the flank in two consecutive impact phases and it was only fragmented when the dust settled
So I'm the only who succeeded to loose when I charge both front and flank of an enemy?
I had one worse than that at the recent IWF. I had a unit of lancer cav catch an evading BG of Lf, so impact was 4 dice at ++ against his 2 dice at --. By the end of my turn my lancers were running away.

Marc

This confirm a well-known phrase (well-known in Italy) of a local artist: "Fortune is blind, but bloody bad luck has a good sight"

DaiSho · Post by **DaiSho** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:03 am

Andy1972 wrote:Don't get charged in the flank.

A unit on the flank is shock troop's biggest nightmare. They can do basically nothing about it and charge forth into the troops in front while exposing themselves to an intercepting flank charge. They then drop a level to disrupted and duke it out. In the best circumstances they will turn to expose their flank to the troops they were going to charge and then be charged to drop to fragemented in the following turn... not fun at all.

Ian

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:31 am

A unit on the flank is shock troop's biggest nightmare. They can do basically nothing about it and charge forth into the troops in front while exposing themselves to an intercepting flank charge. They then drop a level to disrupted and duke it out. In the best circumstances they will turn to expose their flank to the troops they were going to charge and then be charged to drop to fragemented in the following turn... not fun at all.

The whole unit does not have to turn to face.

DaiSho · Post by **DaiSho** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:34 am

dave_r wrote:
A unit on the flank is shock troop's biggest nightmare. They can do basically nothing about it and charge forth into the troops in front while exposing themselves to an intercepting flank charge. They then drop a level to disrupted and duke it out. In the best circumstances they will turn to expose their flank to the troops they were going to charge and then be charged to drop to fragemented in the following turn... not fun at all. [/qoute]

The whole unit does not have to turn to face.

It wouldn't during reform? You're sure about that?

Ian

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