Still Teaching Me Things

[fgiannet]

I have only ever played Panzer Corps on my iPad so I would investigate different ways to play the same thing. Recently I have played US Corps using only historical orders of battle and the game set on Colonel. This would help me better understand why certain forces were chosen to take part in a battle as well as why some of the battles went the way they did (Gela with the experienced 1st ID vs Salerno with the raw 36th ID as an example). This brilliant game was not made to be played this way but because it is so good (and the rules underlying it are so well thought out and intelligent) it works.

Sometimes I will just load the game to see how units fared and noticed the 751st Tank Battalion had a Silver Star and a hero (initiative). I thought that was odd because a good part of the 2nd Armored Division did not have either and they had been around since formation (it is currently June 1944 in the game). After a little more research and contemplation I came to realize that, despite the 2nd Armored Division having been at war longer, this independent tank battalion was seeing much more combat (and this is an abstraction because the battalion was most likely split into companies and dispersed among the division it was assigned to). The 2nd Armored participated in Torch and then conquered western Sicily (although the 3rd ID Divisional book makes a good claim that it was they who did the conquest and the Italians were not exactly fighting to the last man). By June 1944 they have had certainly been in combat but the 751st landed with the invasion forces at Salerno, fought in those major battles, advanced with the division into the Foggia plains, then landed with the invasion forces at Anzio, fought in those major battles and was one of the first units into Rome.

In the game the unit has much more kills and losses than most of the 2nd Armored units and, when I researched the units in real life, the 2nd Armored Division is credited 443 days in combat while the the 751st is credited with....... 581 days in combat!

This game just taught me about about an important concept in war (something I sort of knew but did not really feel) and brought to my attention a unit I have never heard about (which is always a great and honorable thing). I am a 46 year old man playing a 10 year old game and still getting astonished by the utility of it.

This is usually when people tell me I have to play BE. I recently came into possession of an old computer, have loaded Ubuntu on it, and am playing Panzer Corps via the Steam App. I have been playing other mods but will not play BE until I have read everything about it (while avoiding spoilers), it is Autumn (the leaves are on the ground and the wind is picking up), and I have a very nice bottle of scotch to sip while I play. I honestly believe it will be the greatest experience (in terms of gameplay and history) I will ever have with a strategy/war game (I will be a model of self control if I can keep myself to one turn a day).

I thank everyone from the Modders to the players to Slitherine itself. This whole experience has been peerless in the more than 30 years I have been playing strategy games (Kampfgruppe was never this good! Ha, ha ha).

[kop101]

great post, it made me want to launch good old PzC again after a while

[captainjack]

Every time I play, there's always one more new thing - either a new idea to try out, a new mix of units (semi-historical or otherwise), personal challenge or a bit of research to see what happened in real life.
I sometimes need a bit of a break but always enjoy it when I have just one more go.

[Panzerpimp]

I concur; it is a great post.

Deep historical knowledge and feel for the "soul" of the game...

Playing with historical OOBs is a nice idea; I consider it an additional challenge for the game when we avoid the optimized core composition in favor of something more difficult and creative.

I honestly believe it will be the greatest experience (in terms of gameplay and history) I will ever have with a strategy/war game

It is the great experience indeed; the mod is incredibly complex, deep and complicated. It's really huge and breathtaking at times.

if I can keep myself to one turn a day

One turn a day sounds about right. The map is very complex with a ton of units moving and a lot of things happening simultaneously; so playing many turns in a row may be exhausting.

Kampfgruppe was never this good! Ha, ha ha

[PeteMitchell]

Go for BE... no need to read a lot... if you read, you won't be able to avoid spoilers and you will miss out on a lot of fun ... just play

[faos333]

Go for BE... no need to read a lot... if you read, you won't be able to avoid spoilers and you will miss out on a lot of fun ... just play

Agree, one thing you should thoroughly read is the Mod library, contains all the changes

[PeteMitchell]

Yes, the library in the mod is the best thing to start with. I agree!

[fgiannet]

Yes, the library in the mod is the best thing to start with. I agree!

Well then it is settled. If that is the opinion/advice of distinguished and sagacious men such as yourselves there is simply no avoiding it. I will read the mod library and start with Poland. I agree there seem to be spoilers everywhere I look (people love talking about it) and there will simply be no equal to playing it the first time and seeing everything with my own eyes first (even if I wind up losing).

Thank you kind sirs

[fgiannet]

I concur; it is a great post.

Deep historical knowledge and feel for the "soul" of the game...

Playing with historical OOBs is a nice idea; I consider it an additional challenge for the game when we avoid the optimized core composition in favor of something more difficult and creative.

There are some pretty detailed sources for OOBs out there. The US Army has a website for the WW2 ETO which has divisional OOBs that are very detailed. Then, as I play I check the date and see what support the unit was given and understand why (1st Infantry has 2 extra Combat Engineers assigned to them 1-30th of October because they are going into Aachen, etc).

There is PDF of Nafziger orders of battle available Ike Skelton Digital library and that has all kinds of in-depth and detailed information. It enabled me to play an incredibly in-depth version of Soviet Corps.

The Niehorster website is as a great source of information. I used to think that the Germans used Czech tanks in two Panzer divisions but that website shows me it was more like 6 (the entire 3rd Panzer Group was equipped with Pz-38s as their main battle tank).

That is very interesting to me because it shows how “rushed” the war was by Hitler that they would equip an entire Panzer Gruppe with foreign tanks as the MBT (probably alongside French trucks etc.). I would have to pull them back whenever I saw T-34s or KV-1s when I played with the Pz-38s in the GC Barbarossa (especially on the road to Leningrad where some of 3rd Pz Gruppe was diverted after Smolensk) and I once read a T-34 tankers description of the exact same thing happening (“they would leave as soon as we were sighted” he said).

It is just crazy to me how well the history meshes with the game. You know?....my fellow old time war-gamer.....(you understanding my Kampfgruppe reference says it all )

[faos333]

Yes, the library in the mod is the best thing to start with. I agree!

Well then it is settled. If that is the opinion/advice of distinguished and sagacious men such as yourselves there is simply no avoiding it. I will read the mod library and start with Poland. I agree there seem to be spoilers everywhere I look (people love talking about it) and there will simply be no equal to playing it the first time and seeing everything with my own eyes first (even if I wind up losing).

Thank you kind sirs

We thank you for sharing your thoughts, when I first played the BE mod I got so excited with its historical realism that I did not study the library, I went on blind and it felt great, soon though I discovered so many mistakes out of ignorance, now I think is imperative to study it carefully and even take some notes.

The feeling of excitement will be even greater because you are going to achieve more in what ever you are going for

[fgiannet]

I understand completely. I just finished the War Against Russia mod the exact way you described your BE mod experience. I managed to win but would have liked to use and understand some of the newer features (like camouflage, etc.) while playing it. I will certainly be taking notes of the library....

[PeteMitchell]

Thank you! I wish you a lot of fun playing it and please share some of your experiences!

[fgiannet]

Thank you! I wish you a lot of fun playing it and please share some of your experiences!

It is you I should be thanking. For, literally, years I have been reading your posts in particular on this board and thinking “that is just an old school great guy”. A quality individual that wants others to feel good about themselves and enjoy the experience of playing the game. When I was young there seemed to be a lot more of your type of high quality individuals around (everywhere from the baseball fields to the chess clubs). There were still people who lived through the Great Depression walking around and giving guidance back then too (that most likely helped).

Just a few months ago someone posted about having trouble beating the GC, I think, on some really difficult setting but then completing it. There goes Pete Mitchell with a solid congratulations for the lad (the no reply only meant that the compliment was felt that much more firmly). I don’t get out or speak to people much anymore so reading something like that (and knowing guys like you are still walking around.....) has lifted my spirits for many years long before I decided to join this board. You are a consistently good guy (I am almost tempted to think the definition of a man, when I was a kid, was someone who was consistently upbeat and didn’t sweat the small stuff no matter what direction it came from).

Mankind always forgets the lessons of their past but I would bet that during this countries periods of greatness your type of personality/nature was predominant.

So thank you good sir.

[faos333]

Thank you! I wish you a lot of fun playing it and please share some of your experiences!

It is you I should be thanking. For, literally, years I have been reading your posts in particular on this board and thinking “that is just an old school great guy”. A quality individual that wants others to feel good about themselves and enjoy the experience of playing the game. When I was young there seemed to be a lot more of your type of high quality individuals around (everywhere from the baseball fields to the chess clubs). There were still people who lived through the Great Depression walking around and giving guidance back then too (that most likely helped).

Just a few months ago someone posted about having trouble beating the GC, I think, on some really difficult setting but then completing it. There goes Pete Mitchell with a solid congratulations for the lad (the no reply only meant that the compliment was felt that much more firmly). I don’t get out or speak to people much anymore so reading something like that (and knowing guys like you are still walking around.....) has lifted my spirits for many years long before I decided to join this board. You are a consistently good guy (I am almost tempted to think the definition of a man, when I was a kid, was someone who was consistently upbeat and didn’t sweat the small stuff no matter what direction it came from).

Mankind always forgets the lessons of their past but I would bet that during this countries periods of greatness your type of personality/nature was predominant.

So thank you good sir.

So true, I have benefited as well from PeteMitchell continuous encouragements over time, especially for the BE mod, and the AARs I made.

[PeteMitchell]

Wow, thanks a lot fgiannet and faos333 for your very kind words! It's my honor...

Your words make me feel very humble now)