Field of Glory II: “Rome against the World” - Tournament

[rbodleyscott]

I am formally requesting an appeal of the point allocation for my round three matches with bomber23. I don't know why, but the game message strongly implied that - I - was the one who was not taking my turns rapidly enough, and that is fundamentally inaccurate.

The way the system works, the tournament server simply counts up the total time the game spent in each player's in-tray during the round. If the game times out, the player who had the game in his in-tray for the longer total time during the round gets marked as timed out, and, if there have been less than 18 turns played each during the round, the scores are adjusted accordingly.

Using the clock is a great idea but perhaps it could be a bit more transparent to players by clearly showing on screen the times left to both player? This would then help players check what time they have left to do turns? Perhaps been suggested already but transparency can avoid situations like above? Of course it could be there already but to my eyes I can see now easy way of knowing what my time limit is vs the oppo...

There is no time limit as such, it just adds up the total time the game has spent in each player's in box. The one who sat on the game longest overall is the one timed out.

It could show a running total of the time spent in each players in-box so far, but that would be manipulable. Better to leave it uncertain, I think.

[Holien]

The way the system works, the tournament server simply counts up the total time the game spent in each player's in-tray during the round. If the game times out, the player who had the game in his in-tray for the longer total time during the round gets marked as timed out, and, if there have been less than 18 turns played each during the round, the scores are adjusted accordingly.

Using the clock is a great idea but perhaps it could be a bit more transparent to players by clearly showing on screen the times left to both player? This would then help players check what time they have left to do turns? Perhaps been suggested already but transparency can avoid situations like above? Of course it could be there already but to my eyes I can see now easy way of knowing what my time limit is vs the oppo...

There is no time limit as such, it just adds up the total time the game has spent in each player's in box. The one who sat on the game longest overall is the one timed out.

It could show a running total of the time spent in each players in-box so far, but that would be manipulable. Better to leave it uncertain, I think.

Hi ultimately your choice but for me from a player pov it is always better to be clearly informed and if someone really wants to manipulate it they can do that already. Like all these things would it help more folk than it hinders? I think transparency is better and a gentle reminder to a player to get a move on.

Also if things are not being calculated correctly a player could see it and question it before it is too late

In highly competitive chess I don't think the clocks are hidden?

Just my 2p and if anyone else has a view would be good to understand other povs.

[tyronec]

I would be in favor of showing the times.
Clarity is good, as a player you can work with that. Uncertainty is problematic and leads to suspicion of the Slitherine engine, and we know there have been failures in that area in the past.
If the play time is not shown then a player could keep a record and try and manipulate it, not so easy if it is shown.

[ericdoman1]

I am not going to read all but my guess is to show the time for each player. At the mo it shows the same time for both. In my case and due to the fact that a 1st, 2nd or 3rd position is available, I would like to know. Also I would like to know the exact way scores are calculated through time outs. This will be a great help for all as we would have a better idea of wat our position in the table would be. Both of my games are close but I will win one, the score will be something from 60 - 45 (75) to 68 - 45 (83). I would also like to know how many turns have been played, when you look at the "enemy turns" window. For my second game it'll be a case of shooting up the enemy to gain a win but that will take time. I think in both games we have 10 turns left and in both games there are about 10 to 15 units to move for each of us so that shouldn't take too long. Is there a way of finding out how many turns are left in a folder or file. Can't Slitherine include them at all times.

[rbodleyscott]

The emails used to show what turn the game was on (albeit this was the internal turn, which was the sum of both players’ turns). Not sure why they changed that. I will enquire.

[ericdoman1]

Thanks Richard

[kronenblatt]

The emails used to show what turn the game was on (albeit this was the internal turn, which was the sum of both players’ turns). Not sure why they changed that. I will enquire.

I expected the MP mail in PBEM++ to include more information, such as the opponent's name added, not less...

Before
It is now your turn in the following battle
Battle: Random Map Battle
Turn: 8

Now
It is now your turn in Field of Glory II, to play challenge 'Random Map Battle'.


Could opponent's name please be added, and turn number reinstated?

Yes, interesting to hear why they removed turns: it seems to have been part of this change six months ago, in January (see my post above). Hopefully opponent's name can be added if and as part of turn number being reinstated.

[Karvon]

I would like to see some sort of chess clock option, preferably player configurable, added to assist in dealing with tourney matches - or just for those who might like the time pressure element added.

Regards,

Karvon

[ericdoman1]

gametime - Copy (2).zip

(76.99 KiB) Downloaded 55 times

Yes but also actual clear examples of scores based on timed out games.

Hypothetically Score ends 40 vs 40, player a is timed out. I am guessing 00.00.00 and player b 072.23.23 (H/M/S)

Finished score player a 10 (-30 pts) vs 70 player b (10 pts per 24 hours spare)

I have attached the game times of a few games but the important one is RATW. My opponent has now not moved for 5 days and probably 7 + days in total. As this game is quite important, we are playing for 1st, 2nd, 3rd or probably 4th spot. I'd really like to know. He has been vert busy at work. Although we only have about 10 to 15 units each to move now, scores are 45 -41 and 45 - 55, so a lot of casualties.

[rbodleyscott]

What file type? If it is a non graphics file, try ZIPing it first

If it is a screenshot, try saving it at a lower fidelity to shrink the filesize

[ericdoman1]

Thanks Richard, saved it as a pdf

[kronenblatt]

It could show a running total of the time spent in each player's in-box so far.

Maybe that information could be added too in the email?

[CyberHetman]

I would also like to see time-sharing.
But there is a problem with that:
Suppose the opponent has a bad situation and at the same time sees that he has time to spare. He will delay the game so that it does not end and he gets 75 points. If you can't see the time distribution, it's harder to do it. I think that the best solution is to display a link with the time distribution only after the game.

I would also add penalty for long breaks. For example when opponent does not answer for 36 hours his time counts double.

[ericdoman1]

Hi All

OK it is now the 6th day my opponent has not moved in a game that could decide who would be 1t, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, also coinciding with me about to win one of the games. It means my opponent has for certain not moved in 8 + days (he missed 2 days before). He had been moving probably 1 to 2 turns a day during the time when he was in the lead (another coincidence), again these are all coincidences. It equates to about 5 days when he has moved, I reckon it's 10 to 14 turns left for each of us. I have been informed by his colleague (my opponent has not replied to my private messages), he has been busy in work, when you consider he has only 7 or 8 units to move in one game and 8 to 10 in another, it would only take a few minutes to move, that shouldn't really interfere with him playing at least 1 turn per day. I was also told by his colleague he he may be free this weekend but being 7 hours ahead of us means he has < 2hours before it becomes the 7th day of no movement (9 + in total). It seems that this happens quite a bit in the tournaments and there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done. I reckon if a player has not moved for 4 or more days and has not made any attempt to explain why. The game should be automatically given to his opponent and the "late" player has been given a yellow card. Second offence a red card and banned for 1 or 2 tournaments.

[Holien]

Hi Gents (Eric and CyberHetman)

The System is pretty elgant and easy to code as is, IMO the only downside is that it is not transparent so can lead to players thinking they have been cheated of time like the orginal chap who posted earlier in the thread.

CyberHetman that can be done anyway and it does not take much doing to work out who is behind on the time frame. The timezones involved around the world means that some players will always be asleep when their opponent does their turn and hence more time shows against them.

Coding for Opponent does not answer 36 hours does not cover say holidays and breaks, so will add problems.

Again Eric the last suggestion is already in play as the opponent will be penalised at the end of the game. 4 Days is not long to cover a holiday... I went on a break but cobbled together a laptop to play, but not everyone has an understanding wife (family) and the ability to do this.

I truly understand your frustration at being so close to the end but I hope the current remedy as implemented will reward you for your final scores. It will never satisy the inability to complete a game, or that someone does not even have the courtesy to reply back to you about why they have stalled.

Anyway on a positive note thankyou to those that have organised the tourney and I have enjoyed it even though I have had two oppos not show / complete games...

[ericdoman1]

Thanks Holien. Ruddy hell you joined (31 March 2010) before I did. We are both "Ancient, Ancients:)" 2 opponents not show as well. Having a look at the table and if I do receive 150 points (maybe, possibly, doubtfully) it will mean I'll be 3rd I think. I feel I have an outside chance of winning which would have been nice:)

[Holien]

Hi yes I have been around for a bit, even if I am new to FOG2 - I think I even did some Beta testing quite some years ago.... Anyway it's pants when you can't complete an exciting match...

[SnuggleBunnies]

With time zone differences, sleep, and jobs I think 14 days can be really tough to compete what could be 24 turns each. One of my matches might timeout despite us both taking a turn/day because my opponent is in Europe and I'm in the US.

[ericdoman1]

Hi SB but if your opponent hasn't moved a turn in 8 days. 6 days of which has been when he is about to lose one game and has about 8 to 12 units to move, I think that is not good.

[SnuggleBunnies]

The great attraction of these tournaments is everybody playing with the same factions on the same maps and learning from one another. As vehicles for competition though, they can be really frustrating.