My buddy and I have played Maresal at War and Not Napoleon PBEM challenges, and in both scenarios the player who moves first seems to have a significant advantage. Here is what we see:
-- the first player can capture prestige hexes first
-- and when capturing those hexes he can receive the defensive advantage and the hexes are easier to hold
-- and because the first player captures more prestige hexes, he not only receives the "first capture" bonus for moving into the hex, he also receives the continuing prestige
-- as the game goes on, the first player starts buying more units than the second player. The advantage increasingly tilts toward the first player.
-- the scenario maps have the same strategic design: that is, there are prestige hexes in the center, an equal distance from all edges. One might think this is a good design, but the fact is that the first player is going to reach those center hexes before the second player. Thus all the advantages I mention above come into play for the first player. Hence I think this is a poor strategic map design.
Does anyone else have a comment about this?
Problems with PBEM challenge games
Moderator: Panzer Corps 2 Moderators
Re: Problems with PBEM challenge games
Maresal and Napoleon scenarios don't give any prestige for capturing/holding the hexes. I think it's the same for any other default scenarios. For the best balance, it's better to play like the devs did the tournament mode: play 2 games with switched sides and then compare the results.
Re: Problems with PBEM challenge games
Thanks for the reply -- I also replied in the other board. And I hear what you are saying about just playing switched sides -- that is what we are doing. Even so, I wish that PC2 had the "mutual submit" and then the computer moves both opponents at the same time. As it is, with the I go - You go process, and with the race for the center in these scenarios, the first player is always (usually) going to benefit the most.
Re: Problems with PBEM challenge games
Sounds like cringe. What do you even mean? the game should work like RTS or what? is there any game where something similar was implemented? In a turn-based game there will always be a first player. Also, you're exaggerating the significance of the middle hex. It barely even makes any difference.
Re: Problems with PBEM challenge games
?? yes there have been many games that operate like that. All players do their turns, then each submits their turn to the server. This can happen over many hours or even days -- i.e. players submit their turns one by one, it does not have to be all at once. Then when all turns have been submitted, the player who is the controlling player hits a game key that signals the server to process the turn.
Then the server makes all moves simultaneously -- no player's unit moves before any other player's unit. The computer processes all turns at once. If it turns out that two different players were moving simultaneously to a place, like a town or a hex, they arrive at the same time and both occupy the space. If they are opponents, are at war, the computer allows the battle. Empires of Steel is my favorite game like this, but there have been others. It is not RTS at all.
And I don't agree that occupying a middle hex(s) gives no benefit. I cannot see how it would not.
Then the server makes all moves simultaneously -- no player's unit moves before any other player's unit. The computer processes all turns at once. If it turns out that two different players were moving simultaneously to a place, like a town or a hex, they arrive at the same time and both occupy the space. If they are opponents, are at war, the computer allows the battle. Empires of Steel is my favorite game like this, but there have been others. It is not RTS at all.
And I don't agree that occupying a middle hex(s) gives no benefit. I cannot see how it would not.
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bamboofats
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Re: Problems with PBEM challenge games
I agree with billb166. For such turn based games there exist a first turn advantage, if everything is symmetrical
Especially for competitive games.
I reference another game (advance wars by web)
There are pretty detailed studies done to balance such maps for their players.
(Do the rules allow posting of links?), The page for FTA counters in map design
https://awbw.fandom.com/wiki/FTA
Especially for competitive games.
I reference another game (advance wars by web)
There are pretty detailed studies done to balance such maps for their players.
(Do the rules allow posting of links?), The page for FTA counters in map design
https://awbw.fandom.com/wiki/FTA
Re: Problems with PBEM challenge games
The first player usually doesn't have enough resources to attack in all directions 
The attacker always makes mistakes that can be fatal
Therefore, almost always the second player can concentrate his forces and make an effective counterattack on key points of the map. If this counterattack is successful, then the first player will be forced to defend 
The main problem with most players is that they play defensively
it is also not always necessary to capture points at the beginning of the game. You can simply destroy the enemy's reserves.
The attacker always makes mistakes that can be fatal
Therefore, almost always the second player can concentrate his forces and make an effective counterattack on key points of the map. If this counterattack is successful, then the first player will be forced to defend The main problem with most players is that they play defensively
it is also not always necessary to capture points at the beginning of the game. You can simply destroy the enemy's reserves.