any advice on running shooty mounted armies?

stefoid · Post by **stefoid** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:59 pm

thanks

Lycanthropic · Post by **Lycanthropic** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:55 am

*tumbleweeds*

Phaze_of_the_Moon · Post by **Phaze_of_the_Moon** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:15 am

More specific questions get better responses. And it is the wee small hours where most forumites live.

Play on big tables, win the choice of terrain (to pick steppes of course), learn to play quickly (you need a lot of turns to get a clear win).

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:23 am

Well I'm going to give no advice as I don't like them. Hmm, Well, OK then.

1. Always choose undrilled cavalry. The 1 point less per base more then compensates for their lack of manouver.
2.Average armoured/protected mounted are also a good way to save points. They don't take really too many hits form shooting and can occassionally pass the cohesion test caused.
3. Always stay at extreme shooting range where possible. This will mean that you will never get caught, even if at just over 1 MU heavier mounted will not catch you.
4. Never plan for where you troops will end after the have evaded. The enemy will only chase you that way anyhow.
5. Use rough terrain instead of difficult terrain where you have to place terrain. This will tempt MF, esp bow, into it so that you don't have to deal with it.
6 Don't get as many cheap LF BG as possible to bulk your army out these are a waste of points when you could instead have some lovely average MF Lt Sp.
7. Plan to fight the whole of the enemy army at the same time. Due to the extra cost of your troops you will be outnumbered everywhere but your extra quality will surely tell.

spikemesq · Post by **spikemesq** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:44 pm

Listen to Phil. He is wise.

davem · Post by **davem** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:14 pm

philqw78 wrote:Well I'm going to give no advice as I don't like them. Hmm, Well, OK then.

1. Always choose undrilled cavalry. The 1 point less per base more then compensates for their lack of manouver.
2.Average armoured/protected mounted are also a good way to save points. They don't take really too many hits form shooting and can occassionally pass the cohesion test caused.
3. Always stay at extreme shooting range where possible. This will mean that you will never get caught, even if at just over 1 MU heavier mounted will not catch you.
4. Never plan for where you troops will end after the have evaded. The enemy will only chase you that way anyhow.
5. Use rough terrain instead of difficult terrain where you have to place terrain. This will tempt MF, esp bow, into it so that you don't have to deal with it.
6 Don't get as many cheap LF BG as possible to bulk your army out these are a waste of points when you could instead have some lovely average MF Lt Sp.
7. Plan to fight the whole of the enemy army at the same time. Due to the extra cost of your troops you will be outnumbered everywhere but your extra quality will surely tell.

This is such good advice it should be stapled to the forhead of every shooty army General.......

Delbruck · Post by **Delbruck** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:50 pm

I seem to recall the secret to successful commanders is to do the unexpected. This often means taking the the wrong or most dangerous action. George on one episode of Steinfeld used this apprroach. Do the opposite of what you would normally do.

Perhaps this could also be successfully used in wargames as well. As Vizzini in the Princess Bride said:

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me."

"You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line."

In this case there is no good advise, or bad.

INCONCEIVABLE

MadBanker · Post by **MadBanker** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:58 pm

Delbruck wrote:INCONCEIVABLE

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

(You just made me wanna watch Princess Bride again...)

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:36 pm

The Princess Bride is one of the best films ever written. The only let down was that Columbo didn't cacth the murderer.

Delbruck · Post by **Delbruck** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:56 pm

The answer to the original question was right in front of me.

Use Bonetti's Defense, unless your opponent attacks with Capa Ferro.
If your opponent uses Capa Ferro, use Thibault to cancel it out.
Unless the enemy has studied his Agrippa.....

In which case, it is best to roll 5's while your opponent rolls 2's,

and declare in a firm voice:

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

DaiSho · Post by **DaiSho** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:02 am

No more rhymes. I mean it.

MadBanker · Post by **MadBanker** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:18 am

DaiSho wrote:No more rhymes. I mean it.

Do you want a peanut?

spikemesq · Post by **spikemesq** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:32 pm

philqw78 wrote:The Princess Bride is one of the best films ever written. The only let down was that Columbo didn't cacth the murderer.

I'm just glad that Mrs. Columbo wasn't there to see it.

Spike

Huaxtec15mm · Post by **Huaxtec15mm** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:17 pm

MadBanker wrote:
DaiSho wrote:No more rhymes. I mean it.
Do you want a peanut?

Hello pretty lady.

Delbruck · Post by **Delbruck** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:52 am

No more rhymes. I mean it.

AS YOU WISH.

JCgoose · Post by **JCgoose** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:29 am

philqw78 wrote:
1. Always choose undrilled cavalry. The 1 point less per base more then compensates for their lack of manouver.
2.Average armoured/protected mounted are also a good way to save points. They don't take really too many hits form shooting and can occassionally pass the cohesion test caused.
3. Always stay at extreme shooting range where possible. This will mean that you will never get caught, even if at just over 1 MU heavier mounted will not catch you.
4. Never plan for where you troops will end after the have evaded. The enemy will only chase you that way anyhow.
5. Use rough terrain instead of difficult terrain where you have to place terrain. This will tempt MF, esp bow, into it so that you don't have to deal with it.
6 Don't get as many cheap LF BG as possible to bulk your army out these are a waste of points when you could instead have some lovely average MF Lt Sp.
7. Plan to fight the whole of the enemy army at the same time. Due to the extra cost of your troops you will be outnumbered everywhere but your extra quality will surely tell.

Cheers this is really useful stuff

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:31 pm

So what are the best ways to use an undrilled shooty cav army, assuming I'm not as historically interested in ones that count as drilled. My most likely candidate at the moment is likely to be Scythian/Saka of some variety (and any advice for Late Achaemenid Persians with Saka allies would be appreciated as well.)

Chris

Delbruck · Post by **Delbruck** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:58 pm

So what are the best ways to use an undrilled shooty cav army, assuming I'm not as historically interested in ones that count as drilled. My most likely candidate at the moment is likely to be Scythian/Saka of some variety (and any advice for Late Achaemenid Persians with Saka allies would be appreciated as well.)

Obviously you should follow philqw78's thoughtful advise

Personally, I don't think there is any magic formula, other than looking for targets of opportunity. Of course, in the specific case of the Scythians/Saka there is a fair variety of shock cavalry, depending on the year chosen. I assume you are going with Early Saka, with the armored cavalry armed with bow/sword ?

Hal

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:00 pm

Obviously you should follow philqw78's thoughtful advise

Personally, I don't think there is any magic formula, other than looking for targets of opportunity. Of course, in the specific case of the Scythians/Saka there is a fair variety of shock cavalry, depending on the year chosen. I assume you are going with Early Saka, with the armored cavalry armed with bow/sword ?

Hal

The early period is the most interesting one historically and so most likely what I'll try. Might be willing to move up a few years to try the option for armored cavalry with lance but I doubt I'll try cataphracts. If I want cataphracts I'm more likely to go with Parthians than a Saka/Scythian list. (Since the only 15mm cataphract figures I have currently were probably sold as Rennaissance Muscovites, they'd be equally unsuitable as Scythians or Parthians

.)

While I don't think there is likely to be a magic recipe for an undrilled shooty cav army, I do suspect there may be some finer points such the best BG sizes for undrilled vs drilled cavalry, whether it is worthwhile to use protected and/or unprotected Cav, the usefulness of using some shock cavalry vs purely shooty cav, and possibly in the ratio of LH to Cav

Chris[

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:08 pm

Delbruck wrote:Obviously you should follow philqw78's thoughtful advise

Hal

OK then you asked for it. Advice for the undrilled shooty cavalry man.

1. BG size. When using undrilled Shooties use more than 4 bases in a BG. This means that you need never bother putting them 1 deep so that they can evade from proper fighting troops, as they will be too wide and take too long to do so. This is especially useful for unprotected and protected cav. Big Shoots I like to call these.
2. Dont keep your cheaper un/protected cav at the back to provide rear support or plug an emergency gap. Stick them at the front where they are best.
3. Do not ever think about using your extra mobility to get on the flanks of shock troops and gain devastating intercept charges, as your 6 base BG will be too big anyway and you will probably miss-judge the intercept range as it is a huge 4MU, twice the size of a proper intercept. So this may confuse you.
4. Unprotected Cav are no good at protecting your own skirmishers. If they sit behind them the enemy skirmishers will not fight and probably not charge your skirmishers and you will miss good chances of LF on LF or even trans-type action with some enemy LH. Healthy dice rolling fun since you have spent points on more expensive troops than the enemy.
5. Do not use cheap rule ploys like interpenetrating you own foot skirmishers with your shooty chaps to catch the enemy unawares.
6. If you are a man and have some shock troops in your army your mounted are no good at protecting their flanks from intercepts. Their 5-7 MU charge move will rarely be available to stop enemy flank intercepts so don't plan for this.