Winning iniative is vital! Allowing the swiss to fight in mountain would result in major problems for the LH. Harder to get flanks & harder to concentrate fire when the pike is sitting between steep hills.
Once he gets an anchor point like this you have little chance of winning.
facing Midieval Swiss with Hungarians
Moderators: hammy, philqw78, terrys, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Design, Field of Glory Moderators
That's an interesting comment. The one flank march I did at CanCan, the flank march didn't come on for the entire game. It was also one of the games I happened to do the best in. So, I fought the entire game without some troops or a general and still won. Had I not used the flank march, and the very least I would have won betterFulgrim wrote:if the flankmarch is the key to your success its to random and i dont like to be dependant on an "gimmick move"
.Ian
Viking (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
So what if the Swiss sit with a mountain at either side. The Light Horse go INTO the mountain and rain fire upon them from the side and in front. If the Swiss don't move, they will eventually go disrupted and then fragged and then die. If they move out from their little safe anchor spot, then they are now in the steppes.sadista wrote:Winning iniative is vital! Allowing the swiss to fight in mountain would result in major problems for the LH. Harder to get flanks & harder to concentrate fire when the pike is sitting between steep hills.
Once he gets an anchor point like this you have little chance of winning.
Time is on the side of the Hungarians in this instance!
Ian
Viking (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
LH on a steep hill? Dont have the rules with me...are they severely disordered, 1 dice shooting from a BG of 4. Dangerous proposition if there are any light foot around.
If the swiss want to play for a draw (highly possible in a campaign situation) they wont need to move out, a general and rear support counteracting any minus shooting can cause.
Better imho to get initiative and force them to fight in steppe where they are at the mercy of the light horse. The swiss only have one option - try and force the LH off the table. Very hard to do given the swiss frontage and the more they move forward the more they expose themselves.
If the swiss want to play for a draw (highly possible in a campaign situation) they wont need to move out, a general and rear support counteracting any minus shooting can cause.
Better imho to get initiative and force them to fight in steppe where they are at the mercy of the light horse. The swiss only have one option - try and force the LH off the table. Very hard to do given the swiss frontage and the more they move forward the more they expose themselves.
How is Steppe going to be any different than a mountain range to someone who wants to play for a draw? If that's his strategic master stroke (play for a draw) then any competent player will be able to do it.sadista wrote:Better imho to get initiative and force them to fight in steppe where they are at the mercy of the light horse. The swiss only have one option - try and force the LH off the table. Very hard to do given the swiss frontage and the more they move forward the more they expose themselves.
Pike on one flank in Orb, pike on the other flank in Orb. Pike in a curve between the two orbs. Other troops giving 'rear support' Roll dice all day to bolster any disruptions that happen.
Excitement plus!
After that game I'd strongly suggest the player who deliberately plays for a draw look for other opponents, as I'd not be bothered playing with him again.
I've got no problem with someone who takes up a defensive position, but only from the perspective of getting a win! Very often with my Syracusans and Vikings I've taken defensive positions against horse archer armies, but I've also manouvered to try to get into a position to get a WIN.
Nothing is ever going to guarantee you the initiative. If he spends the extra 50 points on an Inspirational General he gets a +2. His other mounted will get him another +2, thus he's in with a very good chance BUT he can still get 6:1'd and have an IC who isn't going to do diddley squat! Besides, can the Hugarians HAVE Steppe? For those same 50 points he can buy a much more worth while (IMHO) BG of bow armed LH!
My thought is for the Hungarians to get the +2 he gets with the other mounted, and if he gets initiative great, he gets to pick terrain, but I still think moving first is going to be more advantageous than putting down terrain that gets moved into a favourable position for the enemy.
Viking (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
I agree that an IC has minimal use in the case of the Hungarians.
Moving first has little value when all the hungarians face is a line of hv foot. Let them move up 6", it gives you more room to get in behind them
I honestly can't envision the Swiss having a chance at breaking the hungarians. A winning draw is possible with some channeling terrain and some forced traffic jam evasions on the light horse.
I also dislike "corner sitters" however there is always going to be the highly defensive army that has to play to its strengths (Swiss is one when facing mounted)
I disagree that any competent player can effectively defend against a LH army that can choose where and when it wants to fight. Orb wont absorb arrows.
Moving first has little value when all the hungarians face is a line of hv foot. Let them move up 6", it gives you more room to get in behind them
I honestly can't envision the Swiss having a chance at breaking the hungarians. A winning draw is possible with some channeling terrain and some forced traffic jam evasions on the light horse.
I also dislike "corner sitters" however there is always going to be the highly defensive army that has to play to its strengths (Swiss is one when facing mounted)
I disagree that any competent player can effectively defend against a LH army that can choose where and when it wants to fight. Orb wont absorb arrows.
flank march
Fulgrum,
Thanks for the comments. I agree that this may be a boring game, but it is part of an ongoing pan-europe campaign we are running, so not losing is not a bad thing as it preserves my army. that said, i am trying to find a way to "beat" him since I can take his provinces if i do.
Thanks for the comments. I agree that this may be a boring game, but it is part of an ongoing pan-europe campaign we are running, so not losing is not a bad thing as it preserves my army. that said, i am trying to find a way to "beat" him since I can take his provinces if i do.
Don't give up - you can indeed beat them.
FWIW I played Swiss with Classical Indians and beat them - and your Hungarians are rather more capable than they are for the job. You just need to pull them apart andpcik on the edges and isolated BGs with patience.
Go get 'im!!
Si
FWIW I played Swiss with Classical Indians and beat them - and your Hungarians are rather more capable than they are for the job. You just need to pull them apart andpcik on the edges and isolated BGs with patience.
Go get 'im!!
Si
Simon Hall
"May your dice roll 6s (unless ye be poor)"
"May your dice roll 6s (unless ye be poor)"
Re: flank march
I understand and wish you good luck!allnud wrote:Fulgrum,
Thanks for the comments. I agree that this may be a boring game, but it is part of an ongoing pan-europe campaign we are running, so not losing is not a bad thing as it preserves my army. that said, i am trying to find a way to "beat" him since I can take his provinces if i do.
PS. Sounds really fun playing campaigns and not just one-shot games. DS.
RESULTS IN - THE DREADED DRAW
Well team, the great campaign game against the Swiss took place this past weekend and ended in a draw. The Swiss had 6 blocks of superior pikes, 2 units of LF Xbow, and one unit of LF handgunners. I took 1 unit of SK, 2 units of Cav (Skezlers), and 9 units of LH (bow). The Swiss set up in a small arc in one corner of the table and basically dared me to attack. I avoided the flank march in this game due to the constricted terrain he sat up in and deployed LH across his front and sent the bulk of the cav and knights on an attempt to turn his left.
Bottom line is that we just traded arrows and shot for most of the game as I could never turn his flank or get enough fire on any one unit to get him to take a test (some bad die rolling in there as well). It was a big dance with no real outcome - he couldn't attack me and I couldn't close with him.
Back to the drawing board.....
Bottom line is that we just traded arrows and shot for most of the game as I could never turn his flank or get enough fire on any one unit to get him to take a test (some bad die rolling in there as well). It was a big dance with no real outcome - he couldn't attack me and I couldn't close with him.
Back to the drawing board.....
