Madrid encirclement bugged?

[Duedman]

hi all

I started a second playthrough and this time went for a grand Madrid encirclement (deadly grasp)

After the second turn I was wondering because 10str. units were not "red".
Its 3 turns in now and some units are at 6 suppression. Should be 12 with Deadly Grasp.

And I did not accidently opened up the ring. Suppression of 6 with otherwise untouched units is not possible with DG (see screenshot)

For some units it seems to work correctly though.

I'm confused. Am I missing something?

2021-04-18 18_11_23-Panzer Corps 2.jpg (518.92 KiB) Viewed 2082 times

[Duedman]

Oh - I also noticed that blue recon helps my artillery aim at red forces lol

[WalterTFD]

My guess would be that for some rounds of the encirclement (probably the ones at the beginning, before you'd formed the whole ring), the whole circle wasn't made up of your armies, blue and red were helping to encircle one another (for those units that are still unsuppressed).

The game probably only gives you 'deadly grasp' if all parties involved in the encirclement have it, since blue/red Republicans don't, those units that are partially encircled by one another aren't deadly grasped.

Only a theory, mind, but it's all I can think of to explain why people in a big enclosure wouldn't all have at least the same suppression. If you'd ever broken the ring, no one would have any encirclement. People can have higher (they shoot one another), but I think the only way to get lower suppression while having the same # of turns encircled is if only some of those turns were deadly grasped. Only explanation I can think of for that is that you lost deadly grasp credit due to the unwelcome participation of the other team in some of those encirclements.

[Duedman]

Thats most likely the solution.
I was sure it was not calculating correctly due to 2 parties beeing involved.
Will check tomorrow

[R2G2]

Watch Edmon’s play through on this scenario. If I recall correctly, he ran into the same problem. He even encircled Soviet troops in the southeast region with only his units, and it still didn’t work. Maybe the Devs the designed it like this on purpose?

[WalterTFD]

Alternate theory.

You can never be suppressed below the amount of entrenchment you have, right? (Been a while since I read the instructions, but I feel like that's the deal.)

If so, maybe that explains it. Those in the open are entirely suppressed, while those who started off entrenched are only suppressed to the limit their entrenchment allows. Encirclement erodes entrenchment, but it takes a bit. Maybe long enough that those who started out heavily entrenched in the city fight setup look were not red?

[VirgilInTheSKY]

Alternate theory.

You can never be suppressed below the amount of entrenchment you have, right? (Been a while since I read the instructions, but I feel like that's the deal.)

If so, maybe that explains it. Those in the open are entirely suppressed, while those who started off entrenched are only suppressed to the limit their entrenchment allows. Encirclement erodes entrenchment, but it takes a bit. Maybe long enough that those who started out heavily entrenched in the city fight setup look were not red?

False, even at 10/10 Entrenchment won't prevent you from being completely suppressed. These two have nothing to do with each other.

[Duedman]

The game probably only gives you 'deadly grasp' if all parties involved in the encirclement have it, since blue/red Republicans don't, those units that are partially encircled by one another aren't deadly grasped.

Only a theory, mind, but it's all I can think of to explain why people in a big enclosure wouldn't all have at least the same suppression. If you'd ever broken the ring, no one would have any encirclement. People can have higher (they shoot one another), but I think the only way to get lower suppression while having the same # of turns encircled is if only some of those turns were deadly grasped. Only explanation I can think of for that is that you lost deadly grasp credit due to the unwelcome participation of the other team in some of those encirclements.

I checked it and my troops definitely form the outer ring around both parties.

Ive got a big contingent of "red" enemies in the south east. Where it does not work.
Maybe the game calculates the encirclement via the closest blocking enemy. The "inner ring" so to say.
But then it should not have worked at all. But it did work on some units.
Maybe in addition that calculation is clockwise or something. Then it determines DG only from the last+ closest unit. And if that unit happens to be one of mine, it works.

Because while nearly all enemy units where blocked in an "inner ring" at least in part first by the other AI and then by me, on some enemy units DG still applied.

[Scrapulous]

I wonder if it's due to turn order. Is it only working on the Republicans and not at all on the Communists? The game could be checking whether the previous enemy player has Deadly Grasp, and since the Republicans do not, the Communists don't suffer from it. This is pure speculation.

Edit: I replayed Madrid last night and noticed something else strange with encirclement. On three occasions one of my units would move one hex, and while moving the "encircled!" popup would appear over a lot of enemy units. But once the move completed, there was no encirclement. In other words, the enemies were encicled while my unit was between hexes, but not before the move and not after, and the move was only one hex. Very weird. I was able to reproduce the phenomenon reliably by undoing the move with ctrl+z and performing it again.

[Tassadar]

I wonder if it's due to turn order. Is it only working on the Republicans and not at all on the Communists? The game could be checking whether the previous enemy player has Deadly Grasp, and since the Republicans do not, the Communists don't suffer from it. This is pure speculation.

Edit: I replayed Madrid last night and noticed something else strange with encirclement. On three occasions one of my units would move one hex, and while moving the "encircled!" popup would appear over a lot of enemy units. But once the move completed, there was no encirclement. In other words, the enemies were encicled while my unit was between hexes, but not before the move and not after, and the move was only one hex. Very weird. I was able to reproduce the phenomenon reliably by undoing the move with ctrl+z and performing it again.

Did you have full visibility? It seems this might happen when you do not yet have full view of the surrounded area, but otherwise do trigger encirclement. I believe I saw something in the Yugoslavia map a while back, but sadly do not have a save from that turn anymore.

[Scrapulous]

Did you have full visibility? It seems this might happen when you do not yet have full view of the surrounded area, but otherwise do trigger encirclement. I believe I saw something in the Yugoslavia map a while back, but sadly do not have a save from that turn anymore.

I'm afraid I don't remember, but my guess is that I didn't. I didn't realize that you need full visibility to see encirclements.

[Tassadar]

I'll need to test it out when I have a chance - I might think I'm sure, but that may not be the true case. Still, I am almost certain that visibility factors in at least when the encirclement is caused by other units that are in the fog of war (not the player's),