DeGaulle's unit

[Vorskl]

If there is one thing that I absolutely hate in otherwise well-crafted DLC 1940 is DeGaulle's unit.
IMHO it needs serious nerfing for multiple reasons:

- requires prior knowledge to deal with. In early SCW, the Vega nemesis was attacking you out of blue, but you could have dealt with it with your stock units by luring him into the mountains or just encircling and bombarding. At Neufchateu and further scenarios you have ZERO chance to deal with DeGaulle unless you bring 21cm guns, Stukas and 88cm.
- sets future expectations too high. If a French commander with modest war achievement is so invincible, what will be traits of famous 'steamrollers' such as Patton or Katukov, not to mention Zhukov/Rokossovskiy? The combination of its traits destroys gameplay: If DeGaulle on CharB1 steamrolls my positions and requires 4 strong units to pin and block him, should I expect that Katukov on IS-2 will singlehandedly be clearing the whole map? Moreover, once DeGaulle at 1 strength, you cannot kill him that turn (thank you, 'Prudent')
- destroys game balance. In 1941 at Rasseinai, we have Solyankin appearing with KV-1. Despite a better thank and more success in a real-life battle, his stats are much weaker than DeGaulle's.
- multiple times reappearing make no sense. I could have dealt with this annoyance once, but it appears FOUR time (Sedan, Neuf, and two British scenarios). What's not just four times too many, it's ridiculous as defies logic or common sense. DeGaulle should be defeated once and then resurface only in 1944-45 DLCs

I like game heroes, but they should be balanced and with reference to the history (i.e. all Rommel's troops get + 2 to movement, all Zhukov +2 to attack etc), not something that Marvel would envy.

[adiekmann]

If there is one thing that I absolutely hate in otherwise well-crafted DLC 1940 is DeGaulle's unit.
IMHO it needs serious nerfing for multiple reasons:

- requires prior knowledge to deal with. In early SCW, the Vega nemesis was attacking you out of blue, but you could have dealt with it with your stock units by luring him into the mountains or just encircling and bombarding. At Neufchateu and further scenarios you have ZERO chance to deal with DeGaulle unless you bring 21cm guns, Stukas and 88cm.
- sets future expectations too high. If a French commander with modest war achievement is so invincible, what will be traits of famous 'steamrollers' such as Patton or Katukov, not to mention Zhukov/Rokossovskiy? The combination of its traits destroys gameplay: If DeGaulle on CharB1 steamrolls my positions and requires 4 strong units to pin and block him, should I expect that Katukov on IS-2 will singlehandedly be clearing the whole map? Moreover, once DeGaulle at 1 strength, you cannot kill him that turn (thank you, 'Prudent')
- destroys game balance. In 1941 at Rasseinai, we have Solyankin appearing with KV-1. Despite a better thank and more success in a real-life battle, his stats are much weaker than DeGaulle's.
- multiple times reappearing make no sense. I could have dealt with this annoyance once, but it appears FOUR time (Sedan, Neuf, and two British scenarios). What's not just four times too many, it's ridiculous as defies logic or common sense. DeGaulle should be defeated once and then resurface only in 1944-45 DLCs

I like game heroes, but they should be balanced and with reference to the history (i.e. all Rommel's troops get + 2 to movement, all Zhukov +2 to attack etc), not something that Marvel would envy.

Vorski, you can kill DeGaulle but you have to know how. I've played where I have killed/destroyed his unit in each map that he appears (he must have remarkable luck to not die ). It is not easy, but you have to use the correct "tool." Your big Russian gun from Spain can apply the finishing blow as can an 8.8cm Flak gun in AT mode. Stukas and other tanks will NOT, or at least not in my experience. Sometimes I can set up an ambush for him and that can do the trick if he is not at full strength.

I personally liked the challenge of him and his entourage of units in '40. It truly made for a challenge unlike Anna's brother in Spain. I was a bit disappointed to hear Kerensky say that the nemesis feature will probably not be making a return in the future. But having a buffed historical hero-unit is still a very worthwhile feature that I'd like to see. But otherwise, yes, they should be somewhat historically based to fit the context of what they did and where. Like Palov defending that house in Stalingrad.

[adiekmann]

In fact, to use Yakov Pavlov as an example, whose story I am sure you are intimately familiar with, what would you suggest his unique hero stats should be? I can think of tons of different things. Some to boost his defense, his attack, his initiative, etc. but I think you'd agree that he can't have like 8 hero buffs.

In a world of pretend, if Slitherine/Kerensky gave you the job of designing just that small part of the Stalingrad map and his hero (along with whichever ones where set up next to him), what would you do exactly? I am very curious.

[Vorskl]

In fact, to use Yakov Pavlov as an example, whose story I am sure you are intimately familiar with, what would you suggest his unique hero stats should be? I can think of tons of different things. Some to boost his defense, his attack, his initiative, etc. but I think you'd agree that he can't have like 8 hero buffs.

In a world of pretend, if Slitherine/Kerensky gave you the job of designing just that small part of the Stalingrad map and his hero (along with whichever ones where set up next to him), what would you do exactly? I am very curious.

HI, talking about Stalingrad in particular. The way I'd make this scenario tough is following:
- Soviet arty (152mm, a few 203mm) should shot across Volga; that's historically accurate and the only way a player can partially suppress it with Strat bombers (there are islands near the city, lets make them hilly and put arty there)
- Infantry and AT guns are being constantly supplied across Volga (again, historically accurate and a unique challenge. If I remember correctly, PC1 modelled it that way)
- Since DeGaulle and Solyankin were high-level commanders, instead of Pavlov I'd deploy either of these men (or both) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Rodimtsev , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Chuikov with stat boost for entrenchment, initiative, close defense Nothing ridiculous like DeGaulle, but historically directionally correct and representing some extra challenge. Or since we have Oleh Dir the sniper, let's bring in his counterpart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaitsev_(sniper) with a similar stat

[Vorskl]

Vorski, you can kill DeGaulle but you have to know how. I've played where I have killed/destroyed his unit in each map that he appears (he must have remarkable luck to not die ). It is not easy, but you have to use the correct "tool." Your big Russian gun from Spain can apply the finishing blow as can an 8.8cm Flak gun in AT mode. Stukas and other tanks will NOT, or at least not in my experience. Sometimes I can set up an ambush for him and that can do the trick if he is not at full strength.

I personally liked the challenge of him and his entourage of units in '40. It truly made for a challenge unlike Anna's brother in Spain. I was a bit disappointed to hear Kerensky say that the nemesis feature will probably not be making a return in the future. But having a buffed historical hero-unit is still a very worthwhile feature that I'd like to see. But otherwise, yes, they should be somewhat historically based to fit the context of what they did and where. Like Palov defending that house in Stalingrad.

How is this not ridiculous? At Sedan DeGaulle in CharB1 steamrolls my position, at Epsom my top-notch steamrolled CharB2 with RapidFirex2 dont leave a dent in a paper-thin Valentine...
Vega could have been killed with virtually any combination of units; but this one can only be dealt if you know in advance what you need to bring and where to position it. Instead of skills, you have to rely on the 'future knowledge' - a big no-no for me

[adiekmann]

In fact, to use Yakov Pavlov as an example, whose story I am sure you are intimately familiar with, what would you suggest his unique hero stats should be? I can think of tons of different things. Some to boost his defense, his attack, his initiative, etc. but I think you'd agree that he can't have like 8 hero buffs.

In a world of pretend, if Slitherine/Kerensky gave you the job of designing just that small part of the Stalingrad map and his hero (along with whichever ones where set up next to him), what would you do exactly? I am very curious.

HI, talking about Stalingrad in particular. The way I'd make this scenario tough is following:
- Soviet arty (152mm, a few 203mm) should shot across Volga; that's historically accurate and the only way a player can partially suppress it with Strat bombers (there are islands near the city, lets make them hilly and put arty there) I like this idea. They could also have a Elsa Kloss type hero on it to increase their range and ammo if necessary (depends on the size of the map and distances).
- Infantry and AT guns are being constantly supplied across Volga (again, historically accurate and a unique challenge. If I remember correctly, PC1 modelled it that way) This is what made Stalingrad Docks one of my favorite maps in all of the GC!
- Since DeGaulle and Solyankin were high-level commanders, instead of Pavlov I'd deploy either of these men (or both) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Rodimtsev , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Chuikov with stat boost for entrenchment, initiative, close defense Nothing ridiculous like DeGaulle, but historically directionally correct and representing some extra challenge. Or since we have Oleh Dir the sniper, let's bring in his counterpart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaitsev_(sniper) with a similar stat
In terms of choosing heroes, this was an aspect that I did not like. I minor complaint in the end, but heroes like Wirnsberger, Rudel, Galland, and Kerscher were in the cockpit/trenches/tank, not at HQ away from the front lines. I much prefer historical heroes who did the actual fighting rather than high level officers.

[adiekmann]

Vorski, you can kill DeGaulle but you have to know how. I've played where I have killed/destroyed his unit in each map that he appears (he must have remarkable luck to not die ). It is not easy, but you have to use the correct "tool." Your big Russian gun from Spain can apply the finishing blow as can an 8.8cm Flak gun in AT mode. Stukas and other tanks will NOT, or at least not in my experience. Sometimes I can set up an ambush for him and that can do the trick if he is not at full strength.

I personally liked the challenge of him and his entourage of units in '40. It truly made for a challenge unlike Anna's brother in Spain. I was a bit disappointed to hear Kerensky say that the nemesis feature will probably not be making a return in the future. But having a buffed historical hero-unit is still a very worthwhile feature that I'd like to see. But otherwise, yes, they should be somewhat historically based to fit the context of what they did and where. Like Palov defending that house in Stalingrad.

How is this not ridiculous? At Sedan DeGaulle in CharB1 steamrolls my position, at Epsom my top-notch steamrolled CharB2 with RapidFirex2 dont leave a dent in a paper-thin Valentine...
Vega could have been killed with virtually any combination of units; but this one can only be dealt if you know in advance what you need to bring and where to position it. Instead of skills, you have to rely on the 'future knowledge' - a big no-no for me

Yes, your point is valid and I see you have nothing but tanks and a recon around it which I found won't get the finishing blow done. Why exactly the two mentioned units work while a Stuka or tank don't? That I don't quite understand.

Nonetheless, this was a clear example of forum feedback re: Vega being implemented to make the Nemesis hero aspect more challenging, but perhaps it went a bit too far.

[Magni]

a paper-thin Valentine...

Almost equal to a Char B1 is not paper-thin in 1940 by any sane measure.

[Edmon]

a paper-thin Valentine...

Almost equal to a Char B1 is not paper-thin in 1940 by any sane measure.

I was gonna say, didn't the valentine have similar armour the the matilda? I looked it up, while certainly not as armoured as the Matilda (76mm), it is still pretty heavy armour at 62mm.

This was the thing about early war British tanks. Insane armour but very limited firepower.

[medkirtys]

DeGaulle is fine. Only the Epsom scenario could do without him. I was tired of seeing him by that point and that scenario already has enough things happening.

[Vorskl]

a paper-thin Valentine...

Almost equal to a Char B1 is not paper-thin in 1940 by any sane measure.

I mentioned I deployed supercharged Char B2 against DeGaulle with no success. Only 21cm + Flak88 did the job.
Speaking about Valentine, how come 40mm gun is more effective than PzIII's 50mm or Char's 76mm? How come Valentine that was only equipped with armor-piercing projectiles up until 1942 has insane 'soft' attack rating?

[Vorskl]

a paper-thin Valentine...

Almost equal to a Char B1 is not paper-thin in 1940 by any sane measure.

I was gonna say, didn't the valentine have similar armour the the matilda? I looked it up, while certainly not as armoured as the Matilda (76mm), it is still pretty heavy armour at 62mm.

This was the thing about early war British tanks. Insane armour but very limited firepower.

It is weaker armor + much weaker gun + absence of shrapnel projectiles in that time.
My point is so much overpowered DeGaulle destroy the gameplay: you cannot bring your stock units ('meta' as you say?) and succeed. Take Bzura as an example: you managed to win with your 'junk brigade' by using a clever strategy. Compare that experience to Abbeville: you have to know to capture DeGaulle in the middle of the map near your positions. If he escapes up north, he'll steamroll all Rommel's units and then come back to you. And you have to know to bring a 21cm gun and 1-2 Flak 88.

The icing on a cake is a special Char 2bis 'Champagne' unit at Neufchateu. I vote with two hands for any history-accurate flavor in the game. But then pls make sure to read about that particular unit - it was captured INTACT and moved to Berlin. Yet in the game it has a 'No Surrender' flag...

[sakura006]

You just need a bit more understanding of damage mechanics. The valentine is sitting in a forest, which gives him at least 4 entrenchment level. Entrenchment level is especially bad for your tanks, 4 entrenchment level gives a 0.60 modifier to your tank accuracy. So your tanks have very low accuracy. Furthermore, CharB2 has a very high ground defense, but the fire power is not that great compared to his defense. Basically all British and French heavy tanks have that problem at that time. You don't have a high attack defense difference to get enough kill chance. Rapid fire only gives you twice attack chance, but it doesn't increase your kill chance. What you need to do in this situation, is to bring an engineer, and a heavy infantry. The engineer let you ignore up to 4 entrenchment level, and the heavy infantry can deal a lot of damage to him with accessing to his close defense. Valentine has a very high ground defense, with prudent, it just becomes much more tough against any tanks. But valentine has 0 close defense and has very low air defense. You should be able to kill it with just infantry and stuka.

[Vorskl]

You just need a bit more understanding of damage mechanics. The valentine is sitting in a forest, which gives him at least 4 entrenchment level. Entrenchment level is especially bad for your tanks, 4 entrenchment level gives a 0.60 modifier to your tank accuracy. So your tanks have very low accuracy. Furthermore, CharB2 has a very high ground defense, but the fire power is not that great compared to his defense. Basically all British and French heavy tanks have that problem at that time. You don't have a high attack defense difference to get enough kill chance. Rapid fire only gives you twice attack chance, but it doesn't increase your kill chance. What you need to do in this situation, is to bring an engineer, and a heavy infantry. The engineer let you ignore up to 4 entrenchment level, and the heavy infantry can deal a lot of damage to him with accessing to his close defense. Valentine has a very high ground defense, with prudent, it just becomes much more tough against any tanks. But valentine has 0 close defense and has very low air defense. You should be able to kill it with just infantry and stuka.

The reason I blocked it in the forest is exactly for the reason so Pioneers can get and destroy it. Meanwhile I was damaging it with 15-strong 21cm gun firing from a hill across the screen. I did not bring heavy industry - my strategy is to rely on a few highly trained pioneer units shuttling across the map; I should not bend and twist because of a single unit - that's a future knowledge approach.

[Wolfenguard]

I Try to Use against DeGaulle Arty with the Supression Dmg Hero and Stukas.

The Main Problem against the Gaule is his Skill for every dmg Point he gets +1 Def Point, so mostly its only help by the last points to corner him and use the Arty with the supression dmg hero.
DeGaulle has is a 15 Overstreng unit, so he gets a max of 14 Def Points if hes down to 1 Health

Vegas was the same, but there works his special skill a little bit different, where he gets +1 def point for every enemy unit next to him, so he gets a max of +6.

[Vorskl]

I Try to Use against DeGaulle Arty with the Supression Dmg Hero and Stukas.

The Main Problem against the Gaule is his Skill for every dmg Point he gets +1 Def Point, so mostly its only help by the last points to corner him and use the Arty with the supression dmg hero.
DeGaulle has is a 15 Overstreng unit, so he gets a max of 14 Def Points if hes down to 1 Health

Vegas was the same, but there works his special skill a little bit different, where he gets +1 def point for every enemy unit next to him, so he gets a max of +6.

[Magni]

I mentioned I deployed supercharged Char B2 against DeGaulle with no success. Only 21cm + Flak88 did the job.
Speaking about Valentine, how come 40mm gun is more effective than PzIII's 50mm or Char's 76mm? How come Valentine that was only equipped with armor-piercing projectiles up until 1942 has insane 'soft' attack rating?

Um, so? Char B1 and Char 2C (there is no B2) both don't have all that exceptional hard attack, their big selling point is armor.

As for how the 2-pounder is so good comparatively? That's because the Panzer III models you have during Sealion are still armed with the 37mm. It wasn't until the Panzer IIIH that the 50mm L/42 became standard - and lest we forget, the 2-pounder was quite comparable to the L/42 depending on shell type used.

The Char B1's 75mm is a low-velocity howitzer like on the early Panzer IVs; the turret-mounted 47mm was really the primary anti-tank weapon there. And the one on the 2C is a Model 1897 field gun for which IIRC the French hadn't adopted any effective AP shell, so it's unsurprising that it performs relatively poorly for its calibre. (Notably, when the Germans converted captured Modelé 1897s into the Pak 97/38 starting in 1941 they would exclusively use HEAT shells of their own production when employing it against enemy armor.)

It is weaker armor + much weaker gun + absence of shrapnel projectiles in that time.

Infantry tanks had exceptional armor for the time, Cruiser tanks were the ones with weak armor. And the 2-pounder wasn't a "much weaker gun" compared to the 37mm guns used by most tanks at the time, or the french 47mm.