Rommel Difficulty: General Advice?

[heinzrondorf]

I am currently playing GC East on Rommel on 1.14 rules and need some advice going into GC44 East. I have previously finished GC East up to Field Marshal level but this is my first play through on Rommel.

Since I knew prestige was going to be tight I have kept a slightly smaller core than I normally do (about 3 units less) and I thought I planned the core composition really well. I did not buy a single tank since I knew there would be so many captured tanks a long the way which could either be used (Chars and KV-1 series) or disbanded for prestige (Soumas, T34s etc), I only had one regular Bf 109 since I knew Bär, Kittel and Nowotny was coming in addition to Helmut Lent in his Bf 110. I disbanded a lot of SE infantry to accumulate even more prestige. I managed to sweep most maps capturing every single village etc and the list goes on. I felt I did everything right.

However, I am currently on Turn 1 of Korsun Breakout and I have about 1000 prestige after replacements! I loaded the save of Korsun Breakout when I played that scenario on Field Marshal and on Turn 1 I had about 35000 prestige. Quite a bit of difference!

It is really hard to explain since I felt up until 1943 that I played quite well with few losses (even the Stalingrad scenarios were a breeze since I like urban fighting) and I had at that time around 15K prestige in the bank with a very good, strong core.

I knew prestige would be reduced by 50% on Rommel but since I am usually swimming in prestige at this stage of the game I thought I would be fine regardless but something has gone very, very wrong along the way.

Rommel is proving to be a more different playing experience than simply having 50% less prestige even though that is what it essentially is in a strange kind of way.

I understand it is difficult to give specific advice on my particular situation in Korsun Breakout with so little info but what are the general advice and thoughts on playing on Rommel, regarding replacements, over strength, upgrades etc.

Thoughts?

[faos333]

To me 1000 sounds like more like a soft cap issue, try not to over strength, from now in 44 and 45 as you knew already is more about survival than map wipes.

DV on this map is 4000 and 0 per turn. Try to be +/-90% so to earn more at the end.
The way to stay to 90% soft cap, is by minimizing the over strengths (OT) of expensive units like tanks, artillery and airplanes.
Replacements: SE forces do not count on soft cap, but in general do not take more than 3 OT per unit.
For the rest of the core I would say two at the most (OT) except for infantry which is cheap.
Upgrades we do not know your core and the related heroes so if you post them I can offer suggestions.

On tactics for Korsun Breakout:
Use lots of infantry +/- 12 units with 3 over strength, and lots of heavy artillery +/10 units with 2 over strengths.
In the opening turns use them to hit armor in the hill 239 and the one hill to your south.
Then the armor spearhead takes the lead, to head south west towards the bridge on Tikich south of Lysyanka.
After crossing the bridge river do not capture the three airfields, otherwise the AI forces in the West 9.00 will attack fearfully.
Do not bring big air force maybe 2 fighters and Rudel, the weather is not good. Bring all your anti air units easy killing.
If I remember correctly you need to exit a number of units, Paratroopers count too, so fly them.

You can also search You Tube for players like Robbie plays strategy games for this map.

hope this helps

[heinzrondorf]

Thanks for your comments! I think you are right, I probably went a bit overboard with over strength in 1943 which caused this situation. It still does not make sense though that I had 35000 prestige at the same scenario on Field Marshal and only 1000 on Rommel…

I am actually thinking about restarting 1944 on General or Field Marshal in order to catch up and breathe a bit prestige wise because I really doubt it will be possible to finish the GC with so little prestige going into 1944. It would be a shame to abandon this play through because I really like this CORE.

So you think it is best not to overdo over strength which makes sense but in general, what are the advice for replacements on Rommel? I almost never use elite replacements in-game but from 1940 onwards I used them between scenarios. Maybe I should have kept using regular replacements since units gain experience quickly on Rommel? On the other hand losses will be higher the less experienced your units are so it is not a given that using regular replacements is actually cheaper in the long run… or is it?

[faos333]

Thanks for your comments! I think you are right, I probably went a bit overboard with over strength in 1943 which caused this situation. It still does not make sense though that I had 35000 prestige at the same scenario on Field Marshal and only 1000 on Rommel…

I am actually thinking about restarting 1944 on General or Field Marshal in order to catch up and breathe a bit prestige wise because I really doubt it will be possible to finish the GC with so little prestige going into 1944. It would be a shame to abandon this play through because I really like this CORE.

So you think it is best not to overdo over strength which makes sense but in general, what are the advice for replacements on Rommel? I almost never use elite replacements in-game but from 1940 onwards I used them between scenarios. Maybe I should have kept using regular replacements since units gain experience quickly on Rommel? On the other hand losses will be higher the less experienced your units are so it is not a given that using regular replacements is actually cheaper in the long run… or is it?

I have played Rommel once in GC 43, so I am not the best source of info, from what I have seen, vet players buy elite replacements all the time, because they want to keep the exp, but they do not over strength beyond 12.
Also, you can sell some of the non needed captured units, by pressing Delete on the deployment screen.
As for play in Rommel, instead of field Marshall, have you ever considered Guderian? Is five turns less, so less beating from the enemy, almost all maps if you study them can give you DV.
So one solution would be start over 44 in Guderian, I have played it with success, lots of fun, feels like escaping disasters

[heinzrondorf]

I have played Rommel once in GC 43, so I am not the best source of info, from what I have seen, vet players buy elite replacements all the time, because they want to keep the exp, but they do not over strength beyond 12.
Also, you can sell some of the non needed captured units, by pressing Delete on the deployment screen.
As for play in Rommel, instead of field Marshall, have you ever considered Guderian? Is five turns less, so less beating from the enemy, almost all maps if you study them can give you DV.
So one solution would be start over 44 in Guderian, I have played it with success, lots of fun, feels like escaping disasters

Thanks for the advice. I will limit myself to 11-12 in over strength in the future. I did this initially during GC39-41 where I only had my airplanes and artillery at maximum over strength and infantry and tanks were at 10 but at that time it is quite safe to do so since I suffered very few losses. However, GC43 was a real blood bath even for my artillery and strategic bombers due to the strength of the enemy airforce and artillery so this is most likely what has been eating up the prestige. I used my two strategic bombers quite extensively during GC43 and always had them up to 14 or 15 in strength and they always took some losses from enemy AA. It gets expensive always keeping them at maximum over strength.

When I have time I will restart GC44 at another difficulty setting. I think I need to be less rigid in the way I approach the GC. I have always played the GC through at the same setting I started it in 1939 but there is no shame in changing difficulty between the years, I guess it can even spice things up a bit to do like you suggest and play Rommel one year, Guderian another and so forth.

[PeteMitchell]

Wasn't there also a difference between 1.14 rules re forcing units to surrender or do I confuse something here?

Maybe worth having more AA? Often cheaper than planes (only).

There were discussions on this forum about the marginal value of overstrength, I think it is also different between rule sets.

[captainjack]

Try searching the forum or using google. Something like panzercorps surrender prestige or version 1.2. Surrender prestige was introduced in version 1.2 along with a lot of other changes like increasing cost of oversrength. Somwhere there will be descriptions of the differences.

[faos333]

.... I have always played the GC through at the same setting I started it in 1939 but there is no shame in changing difficulty between the years, I guess it can even spice things up a bit to do like you suggest and play Rommel one year, Guderian another and so forth.

No shame at all quite the opposite you should be encouraged to do so, experimenting in different difficulty settings

[captainjack]

Not the most detailed link, but it summarises they main changes well enough

viewtopic.php?t=43025

[heinzrondorf]

I am going to bump my own thread here as I have decided to give the GC (East) another go on Rommel. I have just begun GC39 so I am about to play Piatek at the time of writing and this time I feel a better strategy as far as replacements and overstrength goes. We did not really discuss replacements in the beginning of the thread and I would like to hear peoples thoughts on them when playing the GC on Rommel.

I am only going to use regular replacements in GC39 because A) GC39 is easy as it is, B) I am playing on Rommel after all where experience is easy to gain and, C) I want to preserve the little prestige I am awarded.

But the question then is, when should you start using elite replacements when playing on Rommel? I have always found that using regular replacements work very well up until GC40 or even GC41 but after that it becomes almost counterproductive as your units become less effective and actually start suffering more casualties as a result. On the other hand one needs to be super conservative with the prestige when playing on Rommel.

I am interested in hearing everyones thoughts?

[captainjack]

I don't play Rommel, but I've been playing 41 campaign recently and noticed that there's more unit slots than you need in many scenarios. A few well judged retirements reduce the need for in game replacements significantly.
The other big saving is having a few units with no transport. Two standard inf with a sp art or two (or move hero gun or nebelwerfer) and maybe a Panzerjager can do useful work at very low cost. Gebirgsjagers also work well.
I use a variant of Nico's equipment mod with horse transport for towed guns and some other nice to haves which makes the slow brigade a bit more useful, but the general idea also works on conventional equipment (at least under 1.3 version it does).
I'd be interested to see how you get on, even though Iusuallyhave plenty of prestige to play with.

[faos333]

I have not played Rommel that much but from my exp in 43 and after you need the exp, that is three stars on units

[heinzrondorf]

I don't play Rommel, but I've been playing 41 campaign recently and noticed that there's more unit slots than you need in many scenarios. A few well judged retirements reduce the need for in game replacements significantly.

Thanks for your comments. Can you just explain what you mean by what I quoted above? I am not sure I understand, in particular, the second sentence .

[heinzrondorf]

I have not played Rommel that much but from my exp in 43 and after you need the exp, that is three stars on units

Thanks so you agree that I should do regular replacements in GC39-41 and then maybe in 42 and definitely elite replacements from 43 and onwards?

[Rifraff]

For me who predominately played Rommel I never really used over-strength until the late late war harder missions and even then not much. The first two years was all about getting as much exp on as many units as I could so I could fish for good heroes.

Looking at an old saved corps at the end of 39 I had 45 units, 12 inf all around 2 stars, 10 arty on max exp. I would use elite replacements for everything except for bombers and arty since they get the exp easiest but also keeping that exp high.

[captainjack]

"A few well judged retirements reduce the need for in game replacements significantly. "

If a unit gets badly damaged and you can pull the damaged unit back out of harm's way you can then reinforce it between scenarios rather than pay for more expensive replacements in the scenario. However, every unit you pull back means you are fighting with less units for the rest of that scenario. Many scenarios in 1941 seem to have a generous number of unit slots, so withdrawing damaged units from the front line will be less risky than in some other close-run ones. Knowing this, you might look for opportunities to withdraw damaged units more often. Over the course of the 41 campaign, the savings could amount to a decent bit of prestige.

I hope this is a bit clearer - I was using my phone before which usually means I get a bit imprecise.

I've never accurately tracked how much the different strategies save, but overstrength is very costly unless applied sparingly, and cheap transports make a useful difference over a campaign.

If you play at 1.2 or later versions, surrender prestige is big help at more challenging difficulties (Goose2 is probably still the surrender expert), but you will also have to adapt to other adjustments - AA and AT become more deadly at high experience, for example.

[heinzrondorf]

If a unit gets badly damaged and you can pull the damaged unit back out of harm's way you can then reinforce it between scenarios rather than pay for more expensive replacements in the scenario. However, every unit you pull back means you are fighting with less units for the rest of that scenario. Many scenarios in 1941 seem to have a generous number of unit slots, so withdrawing damaged units from the front line will be less risky than in some other close-run ones. Knowing this, you might look for opportunities to withdraw damaged units more often. Over the course of the 41 campaign, the savings could amount to a decent bit of prestige.

I hope this is a bit clearer - I was using my phone before which usually means I get a bit imprecise.

Thanks, now it makes sense and I agree, it is in many cases better to withdraw a unit than pay for expensive in-game reinforcements! As you say, from 1941 onwards you have such a large amount of unit slots so withdrawing 1-2 is not the end of the world. It is more difficult to practice it in GC39 and GC40 where you do not have so many unit slots.

[heinzrondorf]

For me who predominately played Rommel I never really used over-strength until the late late war harder missions and even then not much. The first two years was all about getting as much exp on as many units as I could so I could fish for good heroes.

Looking at an old saved corps at the end of 39 I had 45 units, 12 inf all around 2 stars, 10 arty on max exp. I would use elite replacements for everything except for bombers and arty since they get the exp easiest but also keeping that exp high.

Thanks, I will try to keep that in mind. I usually do not over strengthen infantry and tanks until late in the war but I need to restrain myself from overstrengthtening artillery and airplanes as well. It is in my blood to keep them at maximum all the time ... They do not suffer so many casualties but when they do it gets very expensive to bring them back up to full overstrength. I think I need to be a bit more conservative there.

So if I understand you correctly you use elite replacements for everything except bombers and artillery all the way... from GC39 and onwards?

[faos333]

I have not played Rommel that much but from my exp in 43 and after you need the exp, that is three stars on units

Thanks so you agree that I should do regular replacements in GC39-41 and then maybe in 42 and definitely elite replacements from 43 and onwards?

Not really, if you do that, there is no 3 stars in 43.

[PeteMitchell]

I am going to bump my own thread here as I have decided to give the GC (East) another go on Rommel. I have just begun GC39 so I am about to play Piatek at the time of writing and this time I feel a better strategy as far as replacements and overstrength goes. We did not really discuss replacements in the beginning of the thread and I would like to hear peoples thoughts on them when playing the GC on Rommel.

I am only going to use regular replacements in GC39 because A) GC39 is easy as it is, B) I am playing on Rommel after all where experience is easy to gain and, C) I want to preserve the little prestige I am awarded.

But the question then is, when should you start using elite replacements when playing on Rommel? I have always found that using regular replacements work very well up until GC40 or even GC41 but after that it becomes almost counterproductive as your units become less effective and actually start suffering more casualties as a result. On the other hand one needs to be super conservative with the prestige when playing on Rommel.

I am interested in hearing everyones thoughts?

Some people also limit the number of units they develop and just live with whatever heroes they get... it is is easier to build more experience on a smaller number of units...