Some thoughts on 41 DLC after finishing it

[brettz123]

Bottom line up front I think this was the best content for the game so far. Some spoilers ahead so just keep that in mind.

The Good
This DLC did a really good job at setting the atmosphere for 1940, you really feel like you are just rolling over the Russians in the beginning, then as the weather begins to change it gives you just the right amount of frustration with logistics issues, and finally by the last few scenarios you really feel like the situation vis a vis your relative power against the Russians has suddenly changed. To me this was the best thing about the DLC.

Yugoslavia and Greece, not much to say other than that I really like having this theatre of war in the game. Not particularly hard or challenging but its always fun to have a warm up for the main event

Crete, holy cow, this was the first scenario in the DLC where you really get a curve ball thrown at you. I hope you have been training up some good fallschirmjaegers because you are going to need them. And when they scenario tells you that you probably won't be able to use transports they really mean you aren't going to be able to. I used three level bombers and 5 paratroopers to get the job done. Nice change up.

Training scenario, these are a really good addition to the game. Nothing was worse than having units purchased late in the game that never amounted to much because you just couldn't make them experienced enough, these scenarios really help. Just a suggestion but when you are training up your units make sure to put them on the high ground when attacking the targets so you benefit from the bonuses. Also, make sure to rearrange your heroes before and after. This can make a huge difference in how much experience you get.

Sturer Emil, this AT gun is just brutally effective. I gave mine the following heroes: overrun, camouflage (really helps you not take damage and that is so important with only 9 replacements), and double support. Just god levels of AT support and was able to get him steamroller. This unit was able to kill 435 points of worth of armor over the course of a single DLC, a must get unit.

Commendation point indicator, this is a really nice addition to the UI.


The Bad
This really isn't all that bad, and in some ways is rather good, but was anyone else a little sad that their Verdeja is not going to be a sustainable useable tank by the end of the next DLC? It is the only unit that has made it through all the previous DLC without being upgraded. I would suggest though that you don't update it yet because that extra speed actually really is useful. But man I don't want to upgrade it.

The Moscow scenario, it is a good scenario and it is very flavorful, BUT after the Warsaw scenario I just don't think it had enough meat to it. This should have been another 50 turn grind with a large city to try and root out just a ton of dug in infantry. A minor let down but that scenario is still really hard.


The Ugly
Really didn't like Haptmann Wagner dying half way through the DLC. It does add a little drama to the whole thing but honestly I like his briefings and frankly having been in the army I don't really need a reminder of the human cost of war while playing a game. But at least it was done well and rather poignantly.

The game is still balanced around prestige which I think is a really bad design choice. They should have stuck with the different levels of victory and loss. It is just my two cents but playing on Generalissamus I now have almost 170k prestige in the bank and I am guessing I am not the only one. Removing the tension of turn/time requirements to get things done on the battlefield in my opinion really removes a lot of the challenge in the game. I realize that a lot of the commendation point bonus objectives for all intents and purposes take the place of this but it doesn't have the same effect. I could say more about this but the bottom line is the game would have been better if the major and minor victories had been kept in the game.

[Grondel]

The Bad
This really isn't all that bad, and in some ways is rather good, but was anyone else a little sad that their Verdeja is not going to be a sustainable useable tank by the end of the next DLC? It is the only unit that has made it through all the previous DLC without being upgraded. I would suggest though that you don't update it yet because that extra speed actually really is useful. But man I don't want to upgrade it.

i don´t think i´ll ever upgrade it. it´s a 6 move tank for -->TWO<-- Core slots without the general trait. thats unbeatable. the only other tank with that movement is the T34 which is 4+ core-slots.
i guess 1942+ it will have a phased move hero in it and use it as very resilient recon

The game is still balanced around prestige which I think is a really bad design choice. They should have stuck with the different levels of victory and loss. It is just my two cents but playing on Generalissamus I now have almost 170k prestige in the bank and I am guessing I am not the only one. Removing the tension of turn/time requirements to get things done on the battlefield in my opinion really removes a lot of the challenge in the game. I realize that a lot of the commendation point bonus objectives for all intents and purposes take the place of this but it doesn't have the same effect. I could say more about this but the bottom line is the game would have been better if the major and minor victories had been kept in the game.

a good solution would be to remove prestige gain from capturing. i myself sit on roughly a gazillion prestige on most of my playthroughs, since i like to capture stuff. difficulty setting has no influence on the prestige gained by capturing units. with general trait + scavenger hero prestige is irrelevant by scenario 3/4. If the prestige was only awarded when u "sell" the equipment and adjust the value with the diff level that resource would become meaningfull again.

[sakura006]

The Bad
The Moscow scenario, it is a good scenario and it is very flavorful, BUT after the Warsaw scenario I just don't think it had enough meat to it. This should have been another 50 turn grind with a large city to try and root out just a ton of dug in infantry. A minor let down but that scenario is still really hard.

I have the same feeling. I think Dev try not to make AO too hard after the mixed reception of SC being too difficult. Although you can have some special challenge like +5 enemy strength, but I still don't feel satisfied. In SC, AI enemy will try to attack you from different places, but in later DLCs, enemy simply just wait for you to slaughter them. I hope dev can give us some real challenges in later DLCs. After all, what's the fun of easiness in a strategy game.

The Ugly
Really didn't like Haptmann Wagner dying half way through the DLC. It does add a little drama to the whole thing but honestly I like his briefings and frankly having been in the army I don't really need a reminder of the human cost of war while playing a game. But at least it was done well and rather poignantly.

Totally agree. Especially after I see the ending of this DLC. We need some fan service here.

[paragan]

The Ugly
Really didn't like Haptmann Wagner dying half way through the DLC. It does add a little drama to the whole thing but honestly I like his briefings and frankly having been in the army I don't really need a reminder of the human cost of war while playing a game. But at least it was done well and rather poignantly.

The game is still balanced around prestige which I think is a really bad design choice. They should have stuck with the different levels of victory and loss. It is just my two cents but playing on Generalissamus I now have almost 170k prestige in the bank and I am guessing I am not the only one. Removing the tension of turn/time requirements to get things done on the battlefield in my opinion really removes a lot of the challenge in the game. I realize that a lot of the commendation point bonus objectives for all intents and purposes take the place of this but it doesn't have the same effect. I could say more about this but the bottom line is the game would have been better if the major and minor victories had been kept in the game.

Are we absolutely sure Hauptmann Wagner is dead ? It would be shame to kill off such great (= well written) character, before he marry his love (or friend with benefits ) and get iron cross



PS: Played campaign until end - he is dead

[brettz123]

The Bad
This really isn't all that bad, and in some ways is rather good, but was anyone else a little sad that their Verdeja is not going to be a sustainable useable tank by the end of the next DLC? It is the only unit that has made it through all the previous DLC without being upgraded. I would suggest though that you don't update it yet because that extra speed actually really is useful. But man I don't want to upgrade it.

i don´t think i´ll ever upgrade it. it´s a 6 move tank for -->TWO<-- Core slots without the general trait. thats unbeatable. the only other tank with that movement is the T34 which is 4+ core-slots.
i guess 1942+ it will have a phased move hero in it and use it as very resilient recon

The game is still balanced around prestige which I think is a really bad design choice. They should have stuck with the different levels of victory and loss. It is just my two cents but playing on Generalissamus I now have almost 170k prestige in the bank and I am guessing I am not the only one. Removing the tension of turn/time requirements to get things done on the battlefield in my opinion really removes a lot of the challenge in the game. I realize that a lot of the commendation point bonus objectives for all intents and purposes take the place of this but it doesn't have the same effect. I could say more about this but the bottom line is the game would have been better if the major and minor victories had been kept in the game.

a good solution would be to remove prestige gain from capturing. i myself sit on roughly a gazillion prestige on most of my playthroughs, since i like to capture stuff. difficulty setting has no influence on the prestige gained by capturing units. with general trait + scavenger hero prestige is irrelevant by scenario 3/4. If the prestige was only awarded when u "sell" the equipment and adjust the value with the diff level that resource would become meaningfull again.

Your idea about giving the Verdeja a phased movement hero is really good, then as you said just use that vehicle as a really good combat scout.

As far as prestige I am not sure how best to handle it, in some ways a good player can easily get too much after a few battles but other players struggle with it. I think balancing the success of your gaming experience around it is just not a good idea, they should have just kept the major/minor victory conditions. Which also by the way made branching the campaign much more interesting and realistic.

[brettz123]

The Bad
The Moscow scenario, it is a good scenario and it is very flavorful, BUT after the Warsaw scenario I just don't think it had enough meat to it. This should have been another 50 turn grind with a large city to try and root out just a ton of dug in infantry. A minor let down but that scenario is still really hard.

I have the same feeling. I think Dev try not to make AO too hard after the mixed reception of SC being too difficult. Although you can have some special challenge like +5 enemy strength, but I still don't feel satisfied. In SC, AI enemy will try to attack you from different places, but in later DLCs, enemy simply just wait for you to slaughter them. I hope dev can give us some real challenges in later DLCs. After all, what's the fun of easiness in a strategy game.

One of the issues I noticed is the AI can be suicidally aggressive beyond reason, don't know anything about making AI but hopefully it can be tweaked in the future so they don't just always attack on site. I am assuming that is what they were working on with the different Russian sides in some scenarios, must be easier to give one "side" aggressive orders and the other "side" defensive orders. I like where they are going with this idea.

[brettz123]

The Ugly
Really didn't like Haptmann Wagner dying half way through the DLC. It does add a little drama to the whole thing but honestly I like his briefings and frankly having been in the army I don't really need a reminder of the human cost of war while playing a game. But at least it was done well and rather poignantly.

The game is still balanced around prestige which I think is a really bad design choice. They should have stuck with the different levels of victory and loss. It is just my two cents but playing on Generalissamus I now have almost 170k prestige in the bank and I am guessing I am not the only one. Removing the tension of turn/time requirements to get things done on the battlefield in my opinion really removes a lot of the challenge in the game. I realize that a lot of the commendation point bonus objectives for all intents and purposes take the place of this but it doesn't have the same effect. I could say more about this but the bottom line is the game would have been better if the major and minor victories had been kept in the game.

Are we absolutely sure Hauptmann Wagner is dead ? It would be shame to kill off such great (= well written) character, before he marry his love (or friend with benefits ) and get iron cross

Well I didn't see the body so in true Super Hero fashion I am keeping my fingers crossed for a stunning comeback just in the nick of time!

[FunPolice749]

The game is still balanced around prestige which I think is a really bad design choice. They should have stuck with the different levels of victory and loss. It is just my two cents but playing on Generalissamus I now have almost 170k prestige in the bank and I am guessing I am not the only one. Removing the tension of turn/time requirements to get things done on the battlefield in my opinion really removes a lot of the challenge in the game. I realize that a lot of the commendation point bonus objectives for all intents and purposes take the place of this but it doesn't have the same effect. I could say more about this but the bottom line is the game would have been better if the major and minor victories had been kept in the game.

If you have that much prestige it's probably time to just start piling on some negative traits and special challenges. The base game should be on the easier side so everyone can get into and play through the content without needing to become an expert on how to squeeze everything they can out of every single unit every turn. At the point you reach 30K prestige it's a good sign you've gotten good enough that stacking some difficulty increases is the right way to go. If you want to the game to be hard there are many ways to make it so.

[brettz123]

The game is still balanced around prestige which I think is a really bad design choice. They should have stuck with the different levels of victory and loss. It is just my two cents but playing on Generalissamus I now have almost 170k prestige in the bank and I am guessing I am not the only one. Removing the tension of turn/time requirements to get things done on the battlefield in my opinion really removes a lot of the challenge in the game. I realize that a lot of the commendation point bonus objectives for all intents and purposes take the place of this but it doesn't have the same effect. I could say more about this but the bottom line is the game would have been better if the major and minor victories had been kept in the game.

If you have that much prestige it's probably time to just start piling on some negative traits and special challenges. The base game should be on the easier side so everyone can get into and play through the content without needing to become an expert on how to squeeze everything they can out of every single unit every turn. At the point you reach 30K prestige it's a good sign you've gotten good enough that stacking some difficulty increases is the right way to go. If you want to the game to be hard there are many ways to make it so.

Perhaps, but enjoyably challenging and hard are not always the same thing. I personally think a better way to challenge is with win conditions and not simply the acquisition of prestige. I don't have any evidence of this but my gut instinct is that most campaign failures come from lack of prestige and I just think there are better ways to incentivize players to want to improve. Just my two cents.

[FunPolice749]

Perhaps, but enjoyably challenging and hard are not always the same thing. I personally think a better way to challenge is with win conditions and not simply the acquisition of prestige. I don't have any evidence of this but my gut instinct is that most campaign failures come from lack of prestige and I just think there are better ways to incentivize players to want to improve. Just my two cents.

Yeah I'm not saying you need to make the game impossible or anything but I do think there are a lot of knobs to turn that with some experimentation could find that sweet spot people are looking for. Personally I enjoy taking traits/challenges that force me to play in different ways. Like for example my main AO core has no heroes and slow modernization which I find to be a good mix of challenge and chill gameplay. I also have done runs with serious drawbacks when I want a really big challenge such as one where I can't take surrenders and the enemy has beserk rage (they gain power as they lose health) among a few other things.
It takes time but if you are finding stuff to easy I highly suggest just messing around with some negative traits/challenges to see if you can find what is fun but also a challenge to you

[brettz123]

Perhaps, but enjoyably challenging and hard are not always the same thing. I personally think a better way to challenge is with win conditions and not simply the acquisition of prestige. I don't have any evidence of this but my gut instinct is that most campaign failures come from lack of prestige and I just think there are better ways to incentivize players to want to improve. Just my two cents.

Yeah I'm not saying you need to make the game impossible or anything but I do think there are a lot of knobs to turn that with some experimentation could find that sweet spot people are looking for. Personally I enjoy taking traits/challenges that force me to play in different ways. Like for example my main AO core has no heroes and slow modernization which I find to be a good mix of challenge and chill gameplay. I also have done runs with serious drawbacks when I want a really big challenge such as one where I can't take surrenders and the enemy has beserk rage (they gain power as they lose health) among a few other things.
It takes time but if you are finding stuff to easy I highly suggest just messing around with some negative traits/challenges to see if you can find what is fun but also a challenge to you

Probably once I have finished the complete grand campaign I will see what I want to do with different traits, I love heroes but they are extremely powerful. Just not sure I can go with no heroes

What traits do you use right now?

[FunPolice749]

What traits do you use right now?

It can depend on the campaign and how hard I want it but my usual difficult set up is (Also I only play on Generalissimus)
Slow Modernization
Poor Maintenance
Industry Connections
Trophies of War
Battle Academy
One of the 1 point traits like operational initiative or deep recon
Then I also turn off heroes
I also try not to force to many mass surrenders beyond a handful so prestige and captured equipment aren't to numerous (although with no real ways to really set up some surrenders and no heroes it's harder to force it)

My more casual playthrough is usually
Slow Modernization
Industry Connections
Trophies of War
A 1 point trait
Then again no heroes

I find those to be the right amount of difficulty to me where I can never steamroll a map with no thought but I can always make it through in a good enough state to continue. Obviously people like different things but personally I cannot play with slow modernization anymore. I find it very enjoyable trying to upgrade my forces and have to really decide which ones are important to do right now and which ones I can save until later. Poor Maintenance can make some scenarios very difficult as you you end up losing a lot of movement and time with it which can really make it race against the clock. Its forced me to restart more than once because I had some unlucky breakdowns. No heroes to me is probably the most important thing as once played through a couple campaigns with heroes I just don't find them fun anymore. Sure that flame tank that instakills 5 infantry units every turn is fun once but it ends up the same each time and is really boring for me now to the point I just don't play with them anymore. I've also done harder runs and tried out more traits and some of the special challenges (the collector and heroic showdown are ones I really enjoy using) but those are my 2 most common trait set ups.
However as I said everyone uses different things and for example if you rely a lot on stacking heroes maybe try force dispersion which makes it so you only can put 1 hero on per unit. You still get to mess around with heroes but you can't doom stack those uber heroes onto a single unit. Or if that doesn't seem like it would be fun maybe just taking what seems like some other small negative traits and not taking anything in return (this is a great way to add a little more difficulty without letting yourself become to powerful by having so many positive traits).

[Thunderhog]

Really sucks that you couldn't save Hauptmann even if you keep the Half-Track alive to the end of the mission. I really don't like his replacement

[adiekmann]

Relax, people. I believe we will see Hauptmann Wagner again. The fact that most of you believe he's 6 ft. under is a testament to how well done his character and story has been written. You care. The whole drama would not have been as effective if the medics reported, "Oh, he's going to be fine. It's just a scratch."

I just wonder how come he hasn't been promoted to major yet. Moreover, a chief of staff of a division, let alone a corps, would be ranked higher than a mere captain.

[Snake97644]

I just wonder how come he hasn't been promoted to major yet. Moreover, a chief of staff of a division, let alone a corps, would be ranked higher than a mere captain.

Yeah I always thought that too, he must have enemies in high places