defending valona

[cicciopastic]

Hi guys,

i think that the valona scenario is way too much exaggerated! not even the entire greek army could mount such an offensive .... some combat result are highly improbable yet i say a greek army winning against my fully overstreght grenadiers .... i quite disappointed ... i think i would be more fun to reduce german core units and to reduce greek amounts of units would be much more realistic and fun

what do u think?

[cicciopastic]

PS i really love this game, but some scenario are built up just to oblige u to play just one way .... i dont like thta

[George_Parr]

I don't see a problem with the occasional scenario leaning towards one optimal approach. It is only realistic that not everything can be dealt with through all possible means.

I thought the scenario was pretty fun to play. You don't have much of your core, so it is only natural that you can't blitz through the map to take down everything in your path. Set up properly, let the enemy come to you, and you canwipe out plenty of his forces, until you can push him back again.

While I do like the way the scenario works, I'm really not a fan of German troops appearing in regions they had no business being in, even under the cover of being military attachés. It's one thing to have unhistoric advances, as those serve as alternative options due to how successful you were, but it's something entirely different when you get involved somewhere you simply have no business being involved in. This is true for the two Albanian/Greek missions in 1940, as well as the Finnish one from 1939. Fun scenarios to play, but not really something that fits, I think. It's something I would keep for extra DLCs for the allies of Germany. There's quite a lot you could do with a Italian, Finnish, Romanian or Hungarian campaign, especially now that there is the possibility of bringing in additional armies not under your control. Though one obviously has to look at whether they would sell well enough compared to development costs.

[cicciopastic]

Set up properly, let the enemy come to you, and you canwipe out plenty of his forces, until you can push him back again.

yes that's what i don't like ... if u try to act a little smart u will encounter tons of greeks .... i defeated tons of them, but they were just coming some more .... i don't like it ... if the AI sees that u are winning it should set its units on defense. but instead it is designed just to throws tons of unit against u ....

another example is poland: how many polish unit are set in poland .... that seems russia not poland ... and yes i had an 88 artillery defeated by a polish tankette.

the game is really nice but sometime poor IA is just substituted by large numbers of enemies ... or impossible odds

[gf85]

I think it's import to utilize support fire in this kind of scenario.
Make sure ALL your frontline units are back by artillery WITH artillery support skill
(beware not all artillery have soft support, 17cm and 21cm provide AT support instead)
Change your army composition accordingly, the terrain are mountainous so Gebirgsjäger is much better than any infantry type else in this scenario.
(Greek Mountaineer can deal severe blow to any infantry unit dare to stay on mountain/hill tile without support)
field lesser core intensive unit like 17cm or 21cm artillery (may be one just for counter battery fire), field more Nebelwerfer/10.5cm to provide enough back up for your infantry.
Greek tank force less of an issue, your tanks should deal with it easily
With enough support it is not difficult to melt down enemy wave .

[cicciopastic]

tks gf85,

the problem here it is not that i can't win staing on defence ... i noticed i could advance, but human (and tankS!) waves continued to flow against me ... as i told this seemed to be the eastern front, not greece ....

as i said there is the same problem in the fall weiss scenario ... tons of polish ....


this is the aspect i don't like ....

[gf85]

tks gf85,

the problem here it is not that i can't win staing on defence ... i noticed i could advance, but human (and tankS!) waves continued to flow against me ... as i told this seemed to be the eastern front, not greece ....

as i said there is the same problem in the fall weiss scenario ... tons of polish ....


this is the aspect i don't like ....

Personally I am ok as long as I can manage it
more enemies, more experience and captured equipments

With the overrun mechanic I think crowd control is at least possible. I remember I pushed towards greek spawn point without much difficulties... I was just playing general difficulty (3) only though

[Vorskl]

Hi guys,

i think that the valona scenario is way too much exaggerated! not even the entire greek army could mount such an offensive .... some combat result are highly improbable yet i say a greek army winning against my fully overstreght grenadiers .... i quite disappointed ... i think i would be more fun to reduce german core units and to reduce greek amounts of units would be much more realistic and fun

what do u think?

First of all, what's your opinion on Ebro? Talking about enemy waves, that's the essence of it. I heard Yelnya 1941 is another Ebro, but I did not reach it yet.
Valona is one of the easiest missions - just station your troops along the river (5-6 hex east of Valona) and block the mountain crossing south (8-10 hexes or so) - that's it, Greeks will be sending their troops in mindless Zerg rush attacks while your troops will be earning XP points.

[cicciopastic]

First of all, what's your opinion on Ebro? Talking about enemy waves, that's the essence of it. I heard Yelnya 1941 is another Ebro, but I did not reach it yet.
Valona is one of the easiest missions - just station your troops along the river (5-6 hex east of Valona) and block the mountain crossing south (8-10 hexes or so) - that's it, Greeks will be sending their troops in mindless Zerg rush attacks while your troops will be earning XP points.

hi m8,

my opinion about Ebro is much better, the situation there was very different: in fact the Ebro Battle was one of the major offensive that the Spanish republicas mounted on the nationalist! over 100k men were commited to attack on a large front with a series of fake target and several main target. So that is very justified to me.

i haven't played Yelnya so i can't say but probably it is much more likely that the sovied may commit infinite waves of troops compared to their greek counterpart ... than what is absurd is the quantity of tanks the greeks use! ...

anyway as i told before the tactic here is very clear (let them come) ... what i tried was very different: try to have an active defence advancing very carefully ... i destroyed tons of them ... but they just kept coming .... a bit unrealistic

[cicciopastic]

ps have u tried fall weiss scenario???? that is the worst one if u should take historical reality in mind .... i think the polish had an OOB that could not be compared to the germans ....

[Xenos]

Hi guys,

i think that the valona scenario is way too much exaggerated! not even the entire greek army could mount such an offensive .... some combat result are highly improbable yet i say a greek army winning against my fully overstreght grenadiers .... i quite disappointed ... i think i would be more fun to reduce german core units and to reduce greek amounts of units would be much more realistic and fun

what do u think?

The enemy numbers are extremely exaggerated, yes, but that happens in a lot of scenarios. It's common to be outnumbered 10 to 1, something that makes no sense historically but it's necessary for gameplay. Too small cores don't allow customization and too few enemies are no challenge at all. Valona in particular is very easy because you have no bonus objective, is just static defense. The AI has no way to breach and artillery and AT wall.

[cicciopastic]

The enemy numbers are extremely exaggerated, yes, but that happens in a lot of scenarios. It's common to be outnumbered 10 to 1, something that makes no sense historically but it's necessary for gameplay. Too small cores don't allow customization and too few enemies are no challenge at all. Valona in particular is very easy because you have no bonus objective, is just static defense. The AI has no way to breach and artillery and AT wall.

u right, i totally agree,

.... "too few enemies are no challenge at all"... but yet maybe a differente AI

[Xenos]

The enemy numbers are extremely exaggerated, yes, but that happens in a lot of scenarios. It's common to be outnumbered 10 to 1, something that makes no sense historically but it's necessary for gameplay. Too small cores don't allow customization and too few enemies are no challenge at all. Valona in particular is very easy because you have no bonus objective, is just static defense. The AI has no way to breach and artillery and AT wall.

u right, i totally agree,

.... "too few enemies are no challenge at all"... but yet maybe a differente AI

The AI not being too bright is part of the problem, but another big thing is that after some scenarios you always field an elite army, with full experience and lot of heroes. I honestly think elite reinforcements shouldn't exist, or maybe limited to a special hero ("don't lose experience when reinforcing"). They make no historical sense and trivialize losses, since prestige is always plentiful.

[adiekmann]

If the publishers were to somehow have perhaps the most powerful AI that I've heard of, AlphaGo/DeepMind by Google, play against us...I bet we'd all be crying.

https://deepmind.com/research/case-stud ... ory-so-far