Game should add a plain selection to the map types

[Dux Limitis]

How the medieval battlefield was prepared before each battle :

Very humorous, but there's something I wanna ask you is,how do you think the Battle of Bouvines will goes if there were many random spawned rough grounds on every where of the battle field?Will the Imperial knights in the central ridden down the French infantry swiftly?Or cavalry fights on the both flanks will went sweetly but not all struggled with the rough grounds?Like I said,most of the open battle in that period will found a relatively open terrain in order to convenient for heavy cavalry to move.Who wanna fight at a place that full of difficult terrains and not hilly&wood&marsh type maps?The Teutonic Order launched winter crusades against pagan Baltics in order to let the marshy terrains frozen then the heavy cavalry could move and fight better.No one likes difficult terrains if they could choose more suitable place to fight or avoid from it.

I don’t like to talk about things I don’t know very well. But it turns out that I recently hear about the book of an authoritative scholar about the battle of Bouvines.

According to him, the battle started as a skirmish between the French Rearguard and the Enemy Advance Guard. The French main army that had crossed the river retraced its steps to come and rescue the rear guard, which wasn't expected. The units engaged the enemy in the course of their arrival, some even never fought, so that the skirmish turned into a disorganised battle. And the two armies have never been in battle array, facing each other, immobile as lots of modern diagrams show.

So If we take the author’s theory to its logical conclusion, the location of the battlefield wasn’t chosen, but was the conjunction of circumstances… That would answer your questions.

For what I read,my Bouvines sources was from the Medieval Warfare magazine I.1.The French lines up at the open field on the east of the Bouvines first,then the Imperial army.So I think that could be conceded as "chosen".About the fight after that surely like each side's three devisions were fight themselves but that had nothing to do with the terrains.

[Dux Limitis]

No one likes difficult terrains if they could choose more suitable place to fight or avoid from it.

I like difficult terrains, because its easy to kick a... people, wchich cant make any other attack, that frontal charge of heavy cavalry.
And that, what you are supposing, about looking for open terrains, are just yours imagination and not reality.
That is just not true.

Your thoughts was too gamey,please read something before you talk,what is not reality?Where I am when that generator generate an Western Euro “Agriculture” type map?More like in Catalonia or Balkan But not Western Euro.If the Western Euro was full of difficult slope and rough grounds on the field I think in real life the most of the European army will more tend to use light infantry and cavalry not heavy cavalry.

And there's one thing you can not deny is in FoG2:Ancient when select the agricultural type map the generator will generate more open grounds than Medieval's.You tested,you'll know it（sampled）.

[Athos1660]

Very humorous, but there's something I wanna ask you is,how do you think the Battle of Bouvines will goes if there were many random spawned rough grounds on every where of the battle field?Will the Imperial knights in the central ridden down the French infantry swiftly?Or cavalry fights on the both flanks will went sweetly but not all struggled with the rough grounds?Like I said,most of the open battle in that period will found a relatively open terrain in order to convenient for heavy cavalry to move.Who wanna fight at a place that full of difficult terrains and not hilly&wood&marsh type maps?The Teutonic Order launched winter crusades against pagan Baltics in order to let the marshy terrains frozen then the heavy cavalry could move and fight better.No one likes difficult terrains if they could choose more suitable place to fight or avoid from it.

I don’t like to talk about things I don’t know very well. But it turns out that I recently hear about the book of an authoritative scholar about the battle of Bouvines.

According to him, the battle started as a skirmish between the French Rearguard and the Enemy Advance Guard. The French main army that had crossed the river retraced its steps to come and rescue the rear guard, which wasn't expected. The units engaged the enemy in the course of their arrival, some even never fought, so that the skirmish turned into a disorganised battle. And the two armies have never been in battle array, facing each other, immobile as lots of modern diagrams show.

So If we take the author’s theory to its logical conclusion, the location of the battlefield wasn’t chosen, but was the conjunction of circumstances… That would answer your questions.

For what I read,my Bouvines sources was from the Medieval Warfare magazine I.1.The French lines up at the open field on the east of the Bouvines first,then the Imperial army.So I think that could be conceded as "chosen".

You can't dispute a 400-page study written by an authoritative scholar without reading it, using only a-couple-of-page article from a popular history magazine.

[Dux Limitis]

I don’t like to talk about things I don’t know very well. But it turns out that I recently hear about the book of an authoritative scholar about the battle of Bouvines.

According to him, the battle started as a skirmish between the French Rearguard and the Enemy Advance Guard. The French main army that had crossed the river retraced its steps to come and rescue the rear guard, which wasn't expected. The units engaged the enemy in the course of their arrival, some even never fought, so that the skirmish turned into a disorganised battle. And the two armies have never been in battle array, facing each other, immobile as lots of modern diagrams show.

So If we take the author’s theory to its logical conclusion, the location of the battlefield wasn’t chosen, but was the conjunction of circumstances… That would answer your questions.

For what I read,my Bouvines sources was from the Medieval Warfare magazine I.1.The French lines up at the open field on the east of the Bouvines first,then the Imperial army.So I think that could be conceded as "chosen".

You can't dispute a 400-page study written by an authoritative scholar without reading it, using only a-couple-of-page article from a popular history magazine.

I think it's not a kind of "popular" history magazine,it's quite professional,also with detailed battle maps.If that kind a book can be conceded as "popular" I think the so do the Osprey,and other similar ones.

[Atherys]

Your thoughts was too gamey,please read something before you talk,what is not reality?Where I am when that generator generate an Western Euro “Agriculture” type map?More like in Catalonia or Balkan But not Western Euro.If the Western Euro was full of difficult slope and rough grounds on the field I think in real life the most of the European army will more tend to use light infantry and cavalry not heavy cavalry.

And there's one thing you can not deny is in FoG2:Ancient when select the agricultural type map the generator will generate more open grounds than Medieval's.You tested,you'll know it（sampled）.

Have you confirmed that this is not your personal bias and is actually a change in the generator by taking a look into the algorithm? If you haven't do so and don't know how, I suggest asking someone who knows. Maybe RBS knows as well.

In my short experience, even though this can't be compared to yours, is that the agricultural in Medieval is the same in Ancient. I just have to look harder for rough terrains in Ancient, since I usually can't see it at first glance.

[Dux Limitis]

Your thoughts was too gamey,please read something before you talk,what is not reality?Where I am when that generator generate an Western Euro “Agriculture” type map?More like in Catalonia or Balkan But not Western Euro.If the Western Euro was full of difficult slope and rough grounds on the field I think in real life the most of the European army will more tend to use light infantry and cavalry not heavy cavalry.

And there's one thing you can not deny is in FoG2:Ancient when select the agricultural type map the generator will generate more open grounds than Medieval's.You tested,you'll know it（sampled）.

Have you confirmed that this is not your personal bias and is actually a change in the generator by taking a look into the algorithm? If you haven't do so and don't know how, I suggest asking someone who knows. Maybe RBS knows as well.

In my short experience, even though this can't be compared to yours, is that the agricultural in Medieval is the same in Ancient. I just have to look harder for rough terrains in Ancient, since I usually can't see it at first glance.

I tested each for 15 times as samples,maybe because of random but Ancient generated 11 maps more open and Medieval was 6.

The other thing I wanna say is,someone maybe already noticed it,the Medieval's map generator is more likely to generate streams across the battlefield than Ancient's.This is another different point.Mr.RBS maybe should check that as you said.

[gribol]

Your thoughts was too gamey,please read something before you talk,what is not reality?Where I am when that generator generate an Western Euro “Agriculture” type map?More like in Catalonia or Balkan But not Western Euro.If the Western Euro was full of difficult slope and rough grounds on the field I think in real life the most of the European army will more tend to use light infantry and cavalry not heavy cavalry.

And there's one thing you can not deny is in FoG2:Ancient when select the agricultural type map the generator will generate more open grounds than Medieval's.You tested,you'll know it（sampled）.

And again, i can only say, that YOU ARE ABSOLUTELLY RIGHT!!
If you knows everything better and wants always to be last-man-standing in every discussion, thats fine, thats yours choice.
Have fun.

[Dux Limitis]

Your thoughts was too gamey,please read something before you talk,what is not reality?Where I am when that generator generate an Western Euro “Agriculture” type map?More like in Catalonia or Balkan But not Western Euro.If the Western Euro was full of difficult slope and rough grounds on the field I think in real life the most of the European army will more tend to use light infantry and cavalry not heavy cavalry.

And there's one thing you can not deny is in FoG2:Ancient when select the agricultural type map the generator will generate more open grounds than Medieval's.You tested,you'll know it（sampled）.

And again, i can only say, that YOU ARE ABSOLUTELLY RIGHT!!
If you knows everything better and wants always to be last-man-standing in every discussion, thats fine, thats yours choice.
Have fun.

I just suggested and post some examples to let the game just add a type of terrain which historical battles happened on it ,and if someone reply me I need to reply him in order to answer also show respect,so I have to be that "last man standing" in the topic which posted by my own.

[gribol]

I just suggested and post some examples to let the game just add a type of terrain which historical battles happened on it ,and if someone reply me I need to reply him in order to answer also show respect,so I have to be that "last man standing" in the topic which posted by my own.

I understand that, but you are just wrong, in my oppinion.
In most of battles the battlefield wan not choosed by choice, but by accident. The two armies just meet somewhere, develops lines and fights.
And on those battlefields was small villages, forests or small wooded terrains, vineyards, meliorations chanels, plowed fields, hills and lots of other stuff.
The armies mostly dont fights on flat and open terrain.
And in those battlefield there was some path od terrains suitable for cavalry (flat and open field) and those cavalry, because of natural reasons, just goes to this avaiable terrain and fights there, if that was possible. They just moves and trying to bypass those rough terrains.The fight was mostly not frontal clash of two disciplined lines of ancient Phalanx, but more many of skirmishes with accidentaly clash along all battle line.

In the game there is same situation. With heavy cavalry i just bypass rough or heavy terrain, and fights in open, and rough is covered by inflantry spam.
Its works in the game and it was working in real because of the same reasons.

And the second thing is, that some of armies looks for heavy terrain, because of theirs style of fight.

[Dux Limitis]

I just suggested and post some examples to let the game just add a type of terrain which historical battles happened on it ,and if someone reply me I need to reply him in order to answer also show respect,so I have to be that "last man standing" in the topic which posted by my own.

I understand that, but you are just wrong, in my oppinion.
In most of battles the battlefield wan not choosed by choice, but by accident. The two armies just meet somewhere, develops lines and fights.
And on those battlefields was small villages, forests or small wooded terrains, vineyards, meliorations chanels, plowed fields, hills and lots of other stuff.
The armies mostly dont fights on flat and open terrain.
And in those battlefield there was some path od terrains suitable for cavalry (flat and open field) and those cavalry, because of natural reasons, just goes to this avaiable terrain and fights there, if that was possible. They just moves and trying to bypass those rough terrains.The fight was mostly not frontal clash of two disciplined lines of ancient Phalanx, but more many of skirmishes with accidentaly clash along all battle line.

And the second thing is, that some of armies looks for heavy terrain, because of theirs style of fight.

You know,most of the battles except one side been caught then forced to fight hastily,like Stirling Bridge,Falkirk,Kressenbrunn etc.Otherwise both sides will find a more suitable place nearby to fight.Except the Bouvines been mentioned serval times before,there's another representative battle is Marchfeld 1278 AD,both sides avoided the wooded hills and the marshes bordering the River March and took the battle on the open grounds in between,Hungarian's Cuman cavalry launched the attack first.Surely there was a village called Jedenspeigen nearby but they didn't fight at there.

And about the skirmish,most of the Medieval battles don't have skirmishes before the battle in Western Euro,although there're some examples like Mons en Pevele, Crecy.But most of the times they don't but just launch a cavalry assault to start the battle.

[rbodleyscott]

Your thoughts was too gamey,please read something before you talk,what is not reality?Where I am when that generator generate an Western Euro “Agriculture” type map?More like in Catalonia or Balkan But not Western Euro.If the Western Euro was full of difficult slope and rough grounds on the field I think in real life the most of the European army will more tend to use light infantry and cavalry not heavy cavalry.

And there's one thing you can not deny is in FoG2:Ancient when select the agricultural type map the generator will generate more open grounds than Medieval's.You tested,you'll know it（sampled）.

Have you confirmed that this is not your personal bias and is actually a change in the generator by taking a look into the algorithm? If you haven't do so and don't know how, I suggest asking someone who knows. Maybe RBS knows as well.

In my short experience, even though this can't be compared to yours, is that the agricultural in Medieval is the same in Ancient.

It is.

[Dux Limitis]

Your thoughts was too gamey,please read something before you talk,what is not reality?Where I am when that generator generate an Western Euro “Agriculture” type map?More like in Catalonia or Balkan But not Western Euro.If the Western Euro was full of difficult slope and rough grounds on the field I think in real life the most of the European army will more tend to use light infantry and cavalry not heavy cavalry.

And there's one thing you can not deny is in FoG2:Ancient when select the agricultural type map the generator will generate more open grounds than Medieval's.You tested,you'll know it（sampled）.

Have you confirmed that this is not your personal bias and is actually a change in the generator by taking a look into the algorithm? If you haven't do so and don't know how, I suggest asking someone who knows. Maybe RBS knows as well.

In my short experience, even though this can't be compared to yours, is that the agricultural in Medieval is the same in Ancient.

It is.

Is that it?Because for what already tested it did spawn stream across the battlefield&difficult terrains more often(In Medieval's).

[rbodleyscott]

Have you confirmed that this is not your personal bias and is actually a change in the generator by taking a look into the algorithm? If you haven't do so and don't know how, I suggest asking someone who knows. Maybe RBS knows as well.

In my short experience, even though this can't be compared to yours, is that the agricultural in Medieval is the same in Ancient.

It is.

Is that it?Because for what already tested it did spawn stream across the battlefield&difficult terrains more often(In Medieval's).

It uses exactly the same code. Your sample was not large enough.

[Dux Limitis]

It is.

Is that it?Because for what already tested it did spawn stream across the battlefield&difficult terrains more often(In Medieval's).

It uses exactly the same code. Your sample was not large enough.

So,maybe because of some random factors or just my luck?Any way to deal with that once for all the game really should add a Euro plain/open terrain selection to the map types.Then players don't need to start the battle and click back start again then click back just wanna spawn an relatively open battlefield.Like what I said before,if the armies of the Medieval had the choice they will find an relatively open terrain to declare the fight.

[gribol]

So,maybe because of some random factors or just my luck?Any way to deal with that once for all the game really should add a Euro plain/open terrain selection to the map types.Then players don't need to start the battle and click back start again then click back just wanna spawn an relatively open battlefield.Like what I said before,if the armies of the Medieval had the choice they will find an relatively open terrain to declare the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QibwX2CbIYk

[Cunningcairn]

Yours problems are overwhelming.
The developers should deal with it immediately.

For what I already tested,the FoG II:Ancient's map generator will generate more open terrains than Medieval's.(Both selected the agriculture type)They really should look into it or just add a plain/open terrain type map.

That statement is incorrect. It is the same map generator in both ancients and medieval. I have played a number of games and do not experience the same problems as you do. In every map there is always open space to fight the battle if both generals do not feel the need to utilise terrain. No matter what country you are in, assuming you are not living on the steppes, you will find there is always "terrain" that makes moving in formation difficult. Walk around any farm or agricultural area and you will soon realise that it is not like a football pitch.

[Dux Limitis]

Yours problems are overwhelming.
The developers should deal with it immediately.

For what I already tested,the FoG II:Ancient's map generator will generate more open terrains than Medieval's.(Both selected the agriculture type)They really should look into it or just add a plain/open terrain type map.

Walk around any farm or agricultural area and you will soon realise that it is not like a football pitch.

Actually I did.But the farm field treated as open terrain in the game,and some times the farm fields will connected together(It's not rarely seen)so I think that can be treated as large area of "open terrains" in the game(Also farm fields are relatively "open" compare with the other terrains except of plain,but only add a plain selection to the game can well simulate the both sides find an large open terrain to fight like Bouvines).

[Athos1660]

How many times does something have to be repeated in a thread before it becomes an historical fact ?

(Actually it may tale more time than to learn how to use the Editor to make flat maps.)

[Dux Limitis]

How many times does something have to be repeated in a thread before it becomes an historical fact ?

(Actually it may tale more time than to learn how to use the Editor to make flat maps.)

It seems no way to make a plain map selection which can be merge in to the map generator that use through the editor.

[Horde]

I actually think it´s pretty realistic to have this rough terrain in place. As said, in an agricutural landscape it´s gonna be small buildings, ditches, fences, areas with uneven ground, high crops, etc. What i think its that is not specially visually appealing to see somewhat perfect squares of stony ground marked as rought, but is a convenience for the sake of gameplay. I would like to see some aditional aestethics, though, like vineyards, small plots with stone fences, etc, but perhaps that would be confusing to players.