Offensive Spearmen

[markleslie]

Unfortunately I very much try to avoid reading the manual and just play the game, you know, for fun.

Consults the manual. None the wiser.

This, however, leaves me scratching my head over how much a Heavy Foot unit can do in a turn. Watching the replay of my opponents turn I see multiple Offensive Spearmen advance two squares and then attack my units in a third square. I was slightly surprised since in my experience in the two FoG II games to this point a Heavy Foot unit moves two squares and ends its movement or one square and may attack.

I'm not understanding something. It throws off my game if I can't predict future enemy movements.

Is this a FoG II:Medieval thing, an Offensive Spearmen thing?

As I say, I'm missing something basic and feel stupid. Could someone point out the obvious for me?

[Atherys]

I think those attacks are only possible if the attacking units pursue, as they sometimes get +4AP bonus when pursuing (~25% chance), if I'm not mistaken. I haven't seen any heavy units that can attack from 3 spaces away (12 AP) without any pursue in play.

[markleslie]

A line of friendly dismounted Knights at the bottom of the screen, a row of empty squares in front (now occupied by enemy Heavy Foot), then an alternating line of enemy Crossbowmen and Heavy Foot, immediately behind them another line of Heavy Foot.

Enemy turn Crossbowmen loose a volley, front line of Heavy Foot advance and attack. Then Heavy Foot in the second rank immediately behind the front rank that attacked, advance into vacated square, turn 45 degrees and advance diagonally in front of Crossbowmen and attack dismounted Knights.

Seemed to be multiple instances of units voluntarily moving to their limit, with turns, and performing an attack at the end. This is not my experience in the Ancients version or, to this point, in Medieval. It immediately looked odd and I don't understand how it was possible.

[Atherys]

A line of friendly dismounted Knights at the bottom of the screen, a row of empty squares in front (now occupied by enemy Heavy Foot), then an alternating line of enemy Crossbowmen and Heavy Foot, immediately behind them another line of Heavy Foot.

Enemy turn Crossbowmen loose a volley, front line of Heavy Foot advance and attack. Then Heavy Foot in the second rank immediately behind the front rank that attacked, advance into vacated square, turn 45 degrees and advance diagonally in front of Crossbowmen and attack dismounted Knights.

Seemed to be multiple instances of units voluntarily moving to their limit, with turns, and performing an attack at the end. This is not my experience in the Ancients version or, to this point, in Medieval. It immediately looked odd and I don't understand how it was possible.

Ah, I see what you are talking about. In this case, let me explain.

Every unit movement checks if your end position is less than 45 degree from your original position. If it is, then the movement will not count the AP for turning. If it's 45 degree or more, the movement will count the turning separately. Here are three pictures that might help you understand.

45deg.png (5.48 KiB) Viewed 1438 times

move1.png (8.07 KiB) Viewed 1438 times

move2.png (8.68 KiB) Viewed 1438 times

This rule is in the manual as well, so this is not hidden information. It is somewhat unnoticeable though.

[Atherys]

Have to double post because apparently editing post with an image breaks attachments.

In fact, a unit with 12 or more AP, such as knights, can do this kind of maneuver because the degree between last and original position is 0.

move3.png (10.29 KiB) Viewed 1436 times

EDIT: If I misunderstood and the enemy heavy foot actually moved like this, then it's a bug.

[markleslie]

Thanks for taking the time to reply and inform.

So a Heavy Foot unit can move two squares and still attack at the end of the move? My past understanding was this was not the case.

My apologies for belaboring the point.

[Atherys]

Thanks for taking the time to reply and inform.

So a Heavy Foot unit can move two squares and still attack at the end of the move? My past understanding was this was not the case.

My apologies for belaboring the point.

Attacking uses the same AP as moving (4 AP for straight attack, 6 AP for diagonal attack). I never see a heavy foot that moves 2 empty squares and attack. It shouldn't be possible in the current state of the game as that maneuver eats up all their AP for moving and not enough AP for attacking (0-2 AP left).

EDIT: This rule hasn't changed from Ancient at all, according to my knowledge.

attack1.png (24.1 KiB) Viewed 1418 times

[Paul59]

A line of friendly dismounted Knights at the bottom of the screen, a row of empty squares in front (now occupied by enemy Heavy Foot), then an alternating line of enemy Crossbowmen and Heavy Foot, immediately behind them another line of Heavy Foot.

Enemy turn Crossbowmen loose a volley, front line of Heavy Foot advance and attack. Then Heavy Foot in the second rank immediately behind the front rank that attacked, advance into vacated square, turn 45 degrees and advance diagonally in front of Crossbowmen and attack dismounted Knights.

Seemed to be multiple instances of units voluntarily moving to their limit, with turns, and performing an attack at the end. This is not my experience in the Ancients version or, to this point, in Medieval. It immediately looked odd and I don't understand how it was possible.

I'm not sure I understand the situation, so I have tried to replicate what you have described in the Editor:

Is this roughly the situation at the start of the replay? I have enabled the grid so that things are clearer:




The Front Rank Spearmen then charge straight ahead like this?




and then the second rank spearmen charged the knights, but as you can see from the screenshots that should be impossible:





So something does not seem right here, I will bring it to the attention of the developer.

The other interesting thing is that Offensive Protected Spearmen charging steady dismounted knights is suicidal! It took me several attempts at running my test scenario before I managed to get the Spearmen to stick in melee, they kept losing the impact badly and falling back. In the following melees they will be slaughtered, just look at the odds:



0% chance of a win, 66% chance of losing! Why any player would charge under those circumstances is beyond me.


cheers

Paul

[Athos1660]

0% chance of a win, 66% chance of losing! Why any player would charge under those circumstances is beyond me.

The panache ?

(I haven't read this thread though)

[Atherys]

I'm not sure I understand the situation, so I have tried to replicate what you have described in the Editor:

If this is the case, then yes, this is a bug and should be reported. Sorry Mark for not getting the situation right...

[markleslie]

I'm not sure I understand the situation, so I have tried to replicate what you have described in the Editor:

Is this roughly the situation at the start of the replay? I have enabled the grid so that things are clearer:

and then the second rank spearmen charged the knights, but as you can see from the screenshots that should be impossible:






cheers

Paul

Yes, that image is the clearest example.

Once I'd saved my position to exit the game I no longer seemed to be able to replay my opponents turn but I did replay the turn multiple times to try and work out why I felt surprised. From memory there seemed to be three or four instances of units moving to their fullest extant and then attacking.

Why he was deployed the way he was, I just took to be inexperience which may have added to my surprise when those exposed Crossbowmen were unexpectedly behind a wall of Spearmen and those same Spearmen did okay.

Anyway, another turn and another instance so I'll mention it in Tech support.